http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3364

"Foundations of Stone is now available".

Some more card images here.

The Treachery card appears to read something like: "Each player chooses and shuffles one hero he controls into his deck. When he draws that hero, he puts it into play."

This raises two rules questions in my mind:

1. What happens if the shuffled hero gets into your hand by a mechanism other than "drawing" (eg Gandalf's Search)? By strict reading, you couldn't then put the hero into play. (the AGOT card game, I believe, maintains a careful distinction between drawing a card and putting a card into your hand).

2. What happens if the hero gets attached to a Nameless Thing? Does the hero's "threat cost" count towards the Nameless Thing's stats? (I think not, as the rules do distinguish quite clearly between "cost" and "threat cost" - "cost is not found on hero cards")

Wow yeah, that treachery card is crazy, if that's what it does. And it does look like it IS what it does.

Cool idea, but yeah, I forsee a few rules issues immediately coming up again, some like you just mentioned.

But also, the Hero could end up in the discard pile via something like Zigil Miner.

I guess this is the end of keeping my heroes in different colored sleeves for ease of finding them, heh.

Very good questions from smart player. I think if you draw or take hero somehow in your hand (cose with gandalf you draw cards anaway) you put him to play.

IF Hero card attach to NT it doesn give a bonus cose hero card dont have a cost. And if you attach hero card to NT is really bad cose after NT is killed hero go to discard pile and you can get him back only by Fortune or Fate……Nasty things…..

Dead Heroes go to the discard pile, and Fortune or Fate can pull them out. But otherwise I don't there is another card that interacts with Heroes in the discard pile.

So basically, if you're running something like Zigil Miner decks, Fortune or Fate just became a lot more enticing so that milling your heroes into discard pile and FoF-ing them becomes a secondary way to retrieve them quick.

And for other decks, heavy drawing is real good in this, or Gildor/Stargazer/etc to dig, which is good multipurpose: move low number cards to top for Nameless Thing and help move up heroes.

My guess is that if the player draws hero by any mean(Gandalf and stuff), then he puts this hero into play as usual.

If hero is discarded somehow - ignore him and discard the next card after him, leaving him where he was.

Same stuff with attaching him to the elder thing - do not attach him. Attach the next card of your deck and place him back on top of it.

But what about those cards that would allow a hero to enter your hand from your play deck BUT do not use the word "draw"? Example: Gildor Inglorion, Gandalf's Search. The underlying question is whether the game will maintain a distinction between "drawing" cards and other means of placing cards into hand.

Another question - would heroes in your deck at the end of the game be eliminated heroes for scoring purposes? (probably yes)

It is at least possible that these questions are clarified in the FOS rules sheet.

My bet is on any entrance of your hand by a hero will pup him back into play. And if you won't find him until the end - he's dead.

You know, when he is facedown in your deck he's considered "lost" or something. When you just advance through the quest, keeping drawing 1 card per refresh phase, then its just hero trying to unite with his friends again, but if you spend some cards that allow you to get him from the deck faster, than it's something like "group is searching for the lost comrade" and therefore there is nothing wrong with it. From my perspective, of course.

jjeagle said:

Maybe (but probably not) they will address this in the little booklet. Have they anyone?

Because you're totally right, there is a distinction between draw, search, etc. Like when you "cannot draw" due to Enchanted Stream, you can still "search" (at least I believe and have always played so).

lleimmoen said:

My own view is (assuming we are reading the card text properly, and assuming this is not addressed in the rules sheet) that you have to play the cards strictly as worded. If an effect does not use the word "draw", then you are not "drawing" cards. This would be consistent with, for instance, the rules on "When Revealed" - cards are only "revealed" from the encounter deck when that word is specifically used.

Agreed. (The post was too short.)

You can look at the rules sheet on the game's support page - this hero issue is not mentioned at all.

Exactly as I thought. By the way, is there a pic of Daeron's Runes anywhere? I'd like to see that art.

An unrelated speculation, reading back over the FOS release announcement: "Now, while Elrond awaits their reports, he considers what resources he can spare to send after the heroes, in order to aid their efforts."

Are FFG building up towards Elrond as the hero in Shadow and Flame? This would also fit with the earlier statement that an Elven Ring would feature in that quest. Elrond could also have some global Noldor-boosting ability a la Dain which would cap the Noldor theme of this cycle.

Personally I don't think Elrond as hero would really work thematically as it's pretty clear he never leaves Rivendell and hasn't for thousands of years. I would sooner see him represented in the game indirectly through events (as he already is with Elrond's Counsel) and maybe a temporary ally like Gandalf.

We did get the new Glory right? The ring though…

Do we have a card list yet? This is the most annoying aspect of Fantasy Flight… their PR department leaves a lot to be desired. Why they wouldn't go ahead and post images of all the cards is something I will never understand.

I too thought the previous announcement lead to an Elven Ring-bearer. And then the choice is rather small. Still I'd much prefer Elrond as an ally. Yet if we can get Denethor as Hero? And it's true that a few thousand years before Elrond had a tendency to stroll around a bit.

Shall we have a new thread on this mr jjeagle? Would you like the speculations about the Shadow and Flame hero begin? I think you'd be the right person to start it…

Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Eh, people talk about proxying extra copies of core set cards. If they posted all the images, proxiers wouldn't have to buy any expansions at all.

Dam said: