what i see on rulebook is simple: Non-lava space > closest Free space
Non lava space part have more value then closest free space. It's simple when you are not one of thous people that want to find every exploit of game to win or just want to piss off fellow gamers.
Actually the rules DO state that the hero gets placed in the closest empty non-lava space. The issue is actually that it is a part of the knockout process. When the hero is knocked out his hero token gets placed in the nearest empty non-lava space. Then the OL places his monsters in such a way that when its the hero's turn to stand up, he is forced to stand up in the closesest empty space, which in this scenario is a lava space, thus immediately killing the hero as he can't move when he stands up. A thread on BGG has discussed the possibility of the hero simply chosing not to stand up. The rules for this do say "may" so technically the hero could choose not to stand up, essentially wasting the OL's actions and time, allowing his group a better opportunity to win the quest.
But in the off chance that the OL is just a punk and decides he's lost the quest anyway and would rather just piss off a certain player, OK, the rules allow for him to be screwed over as well. A thread on BGG has discussed the possibility the the Hero just stays knocked out. The rules for this state that standing up is the only action a hero " MAY " perform. May indicates that he doesn't have to and thus he chooses to stay knocked out essentially wasting the setup the OL was intent on setting up.
Other than that, another easy house rule would be that the hero token is placed in the lava where the hero was knocked out. When he stands up or is revived, he is moved to the closest empty non-lava space available.
Die in fire = token placed in non lava space
Dead token gets occupied by monster on overlords turn
Hero revives on his turn, has to place token on nearest EMPTY space, which could be lava
Hero ends his turn, in lava
Hero knocked out again, moves token to nearest non lava space
Rinse repeat, although in my opinion the overlord will eventually not be able to box the hero in due to the hero being positioned further and further from the lava
Lupin89 said:
what i see on rulebook is simple: Non-lava space > closest Free space
Non lava space part have more value then closest free space. It's simple when you are not one of thous people that want to find every exploit of game to win or just want to piss off fellow gamers.
It is funny how people is trying to go around this subject. If your knock out in a no lava space. A monster is standing on you, and you have lave on the 8 hex around you. You will "stand up" in the nearst empty space. Empty space is discribe on page 9 in the rulebook. From that a lava hex is a empty hex. Therefore you will stand up in lava end turn, and get knock out of the lava (and end your turn in a empty non-lava space (because of the speciel rule from lavahex).
But please read Loosman2001 reply. It is not broken. There are plenty of opportunities for the other heroes to help the trap hero. Only a very speciel map with a lot of lava in the right place will make it a big problem for the heroes. I don't think is brooken at all. If it in line of the rule. I can not see, why the OL should not use that opportunity if he get it. This game is about winning.
Thanks to Loosman2001 he said some very wise thing IMO.
1- Nothing prevents the Overlord to place a monster on a space occupied by a dead Hero token? If nothing prevents the OL to do so and he likes to lose precious time circling a dead hero and occupying a dead Hero token every time he can, see #2.
2a- Simply move the dead Hero token on the nearest empty space, BEFORE HE STANDS UP, chosen by the Overlord.
OR
2b- Simply move the dead Hero token on the nearest empty space, BEFORE HE STANDS UP, chosen by the Hero.
House ruling this with common sense would not be that hard and better than letting the Hero die turn after turn due to an a$$ of an OL
…that is, IF this kind of situation ever occurs and like already said, why would an OL circle a dead hero just for the sake of preventing him to stand up?!?!?!? He sure have better things to do than that!
SolennelBern said:
Jrescan said:
SolennelBern said:
Bindlespin said:
I don't know Danish, but in English (and even in Chinese) commas in this situation are coordinating unless you use "either" or "or" with them to let the reader know that they are not.
Exactly…so don't see the point of posts asking if the comma means "and", "or", "if", "what", "then", "maybe", "so" or "be"…47 minutes sigh…
What's the point of asking? To have an answer. Not everyone is so literate as others. I am no English speaking native but I think I have the right to post a question regarding something I am interested. Thanks for your kind responses by the way.
Yeah I understand that I maybe have been a bit harsh or impatient and my sincere apologies, it was not my intention…well I was and still am a bit irritated by some of the comments posted, since firstly the game is not even released and secondly lots of them are just confusing and might repel some newcomers in the boardgame world.
Anyways, forums are there to ask questions and discuss topics AND to let annoying people like me post their discontent at some comments. Goes both ways.
No hard feelings!
SolennelBern said:
Jrescan said:
SolennelBern said:
Bindlespin said:
I don't know Danish, but in English (and even in Chinese) commas in this situation are coordinating unless you use "either" or "or" with them to let the reader know that they are not.
Exactly…so don't see the point of posts asking if the comma means "and", "or", "if", "what", "then", "maybe", "so" or "be"…47 minutes sigh…
What's the point of asking? To have an answer. Not everyone is so literate as others. I am no English speaking native but I think I have the right to post a question regarding something I am interested. Thanks for your kind responses by the way.
Yeah I understand that I maybe have been a bit harsh or impatient and my sincere apologies, it was not my intention…well I was and still am a bit irritated by some of the comments posted, since firstly the game is not even released and secondly lots of them are just confusing and might repel some newcomers in the boardgame world.
Anyways, forums are there to ask questions and discuss topics AND to let annoying people like me post their discontent at some comments. Goes both ways.
No hard feelings!
No problema man. Now I understand your motives and respect them above all. Great gaming!!
Unclechawie said:
Actually the rules DO state that the hero gets placed in the closest empty non-lava space. The issue is actually that it is a part of the knockout process. When the hero is knocked out his hero token gets placed in the nearest empty non-lava space. Then the OL places his monsters in such a way that when its the hero's turn to stand up, he is forced to stand up in the closesest empty space, which in this scenario is a lava space, thus immediately killing the hero as he can't move when he stands up. A thread on BGG has discussed the possibility of the hero simply chosing not to stand up. The rules for this do say "may" so technically the hero could choose not to stand up, essentially wasting the OL's actions and time, allowing his group a better opportunity to win the quest.
But in the off chance that the OL is just a punk and decides he's lost the quest anyway and would rather just piss off a certain player, OK, the rules allow for him to be screwed over as well. A thread on BGG has discussed the possibility the the Hero just stays knocked out. The rules for this state that standing up is the only action a hero " MAY " perform. May indicates that he doesn't have to and thus he chooses to stay knocked out essentially wasting the setup the OL was intent on setting up.
Other than that, another easy house rule would be that the hero token is placed in the lava where the hero was knocked out. When he stands up or is revived, he is moved to the closest empty non-lava space available.
Unclechawie said:
Actually the rules DO state that the hero gets placed in the closest empty non-lava space. The issue is actually that it is a part of the knockout process. When the hero is knocked out his hero token gets placed in the nearest empty non-lava space. Then the OL places his monsters in such a way that when its the hero's turn to stand up, he is forced to stand up in the closesest empty space, which in this scenario is a lava space, thus immediately killing the hero as he can't move when he stands up. A thread on BGG has discussed the possibility of the hero simply chosing not to stand up. The rules for this do say "may" so technically the hero could choose not to stand up, essentially wasting the OL's actions and time, allowing his group a better opportunity to win the quest.
But in the off chance that the OL is just a punk and decides he's lost the quest anyway and would rather just piss off a certain player, OK, the rules allow for him to be screwed over as well. A thread on BGG has discussed the possibility the the Hero just stays knocked out. The rules for this state that standing up is the only action a hero " MAY " perform. May indicates that he doesn't have to and thus he chooses to stay knocked out essentially wasting the setup the OL was intent on setting up.
Other than that, another easy house rule would be that the hero token is placed in the lava where the hero was knocked out. When he stands up or is revived, he is moved to the closest empty non-lava space available.
The rule say:
When a hero is knocked out, he can only perform a stand up action (see
“Knocked Out” on page 15). In addition, this action may only be
performed by a hero that is knocked out.
I have not ready all the argument on BGG, but it is clear to me. A hero have to make his action (the same discussion in 1. edition if you have 20 burntoken and your fellow heroes is close to kill the last monster. Can you not take your turn, so you don't have to rule for the burn). The text is IMO also clere "he can only perform a stand up action" he has to.
Why write this "In addition, this action MAY only be performed by a hero that is knocked out. IMO it is because you have to say, that you have to be knocked out to use this action. If they have not written it. You could argue, that a hero that is not knocked out could make the action "stand up" and get the life and fatigue.
I do not believe this is correct. The example listed on page 13 states "…His chipped Greataxe has two different surge abilities that have the same effect ("S: +1 heart). He decides to spend one surge from his attack roll to trigger one of the abilities on his chipped greataxe. He could trigger the second surge ability to add another "S+1 heart"… Each "picture" representation of a surge symbol on that one card requires a separate surge spent. This is different than the first edition. Furthermore, the two surge abilities shown on the Greataxe card have two separate pictoral representations. Each one may only be used once and then they are tapped for the turn.
Fiendcleaver, I don't think there is substantial disagreement on that point. Who are you responding to?
Bleached Lizard said:
IronRavenstorm said:
The only rule that really bugs me is the one about group gold and shopping. Sure it looks like a good idea, but when you have the group decide what to buy then you have a problem. Well, at least in my gaming groups. For the most part I play with a bunch of glory gamers that only care about themselves instead of the group. For the first edition I would be right 99% of the time while my group would just fall into the traps set by the OL. I basically play with idiots, and I do not want to share my gold with them and have them decide what to buy. What happens if you group of heroes can decide on what to buy in the result of a tie? If some people get the chance they would only buy for themselves while leaving others out to dry. Not a fan of this rule at all.
I really need to find some different people to play with. Maybe some who understand what a group game is all about…Teamwork!!!
I've always wondered where the groups were who didn't know how to cooperate in a co-op game. I guess they're where you are.
You'll have to institute a house rule from the very beginning saying that if the heroes can't decide as a group how to split the cash then they have to roll a die or something to decide. Or during each shopping phase, one player is considered the "leader" who arbitrates all decisions for the group, and the leader changes each shopping phase.
Tell me about it. My group has been around since 2003, and we are very competitive. Over the years we have played mostly games against each other, so these team co-op games are something new to them. They all want to be the leader and try to take over the group, but everyone is in it for themselves in the end. I'm the wise one of the group that tells them how to survive, but do they listen? No, they are glory hogs and end up dying. I will have to come up with some house rules to make everyone happy.
Unclechawie said:
Actually the rules DO state that the hero gets placed in the closest empty non-lava space. The issue is actually that it is a part of the knockout process. When the hero is knocked out his hero token gets placed in the nearest empty non-lava space. Then the OL places his monsters in such a way that when its the hero's turn to stand up, he is forced to stand up in the closesest empty space, which in this scenario is a lava space, thus immediately killing the hero as he can't move when he stands up. A thread on BGG has discussed the possibility of the hero simply chosing not to stand up. The rules for this do say "may" so technically the hero could choose not to stand up, essentially wasting the OL's actions and time, allowing his group a better opportunity to win the quest.
But in the off chance that the OL is just a punk and decides he's lost the quest anyway and would rather just piss off a certain player, OK, the rules allow for him to be screwed over as well. A thread on BGG has discussed the possibility the the Hero just stays knocked out. The rules for this state that standing up is the only action a hero " MAY " perform. May indicates that he doesn't have to and thus he chooses to stay knocked out essentially wasting the setup the OL was intent on setting up.
Other than that, another easy house rule would be that the hero token is placed in the lava where the hero was knocked out. When he stands up or is revived, he is moved to the closest empty non-lava space available.
Ah, all this could have been avoided if they didn't let a space occupied by a downed hero be habitable…
IronRavenstorm said:
Tell me about it. My group has been around since 2003, and we are very competitive. Over the years we have played mostly games against each other, so these team co-op games are something new to them. They all want to be the leader and try to take over the group, but everyone is in it for themselves in the end. I'm the wise one of the group that tells them how to survive, but do they listen? No, they are glory hogs and end up dying. I will have to come up with some house rules to make everyone happy.