For the most part it is a pretty even setup but I think that the allies have an advantage. In smaller games, especially with only a single mech per side, Joe is much more useful than Manfred. The extra order and grenade launcher are better than unlimited panzerfausts and assault in infantry heavy lists. Maybe add a type 3 unit to each side and swap the heroes for Ozz and Laura would be more balanced and easier for new players to use?

Manfred does have that extra wound though… it looks pretty balanced to me. You will never have perfect balance on paper, and two opponents are rarely perfectly balanced either but it should definitely make for a nicely balanced game where both sides have strengths.

DoomOnYou72 said:

I want to avoid the type 3 units, as they all have something fancy that first time players either never remember/plan for, or require more finesse & practice to use. Mêlée only, jump, climb, can't be suppressed, laser rerolls, rocket punch dice reversals, you name it.

As far as Manfred vs B-Joe, it's countered by the discrepancy in Hans vs Blackhawk. Plus, Assault with Blitzkrieg is pretty sweet.

I liked it

My only concern about the Allies was that the use of the combat platoon confront the newcomer with artillery from outside of the table, with the Long Tom, that was the main reason I used the assault platoon in my 120 AP list (I posted them in a thread called 2nd round of DW or something like that) as limited visibility is maybe easier to figure out.

Your arguments bzw. concerns about level 3 infantry I subscribe totally, my 1st game, you already know, with an experience gamer was quite blurry on the special abilities, too much stuff to remember plus new rules of a new game.

Heroes: I have mixed feelings, with someone which already knowns wargames, yes, for sure. But if you have a real newcomer, like in my 2nd game, then I will skip them, mention them for sure, but not playing with them.

Hans vs Blackhawk: well, in the only game you played totally, the 1st one, I let my Hans in the open, too close to the Blackhawk and the All-in-one thing destroyed it in one shot…

But I agree, the Hans seems to be probably the best light walker of the game, I kind of liked it from the 1st moment :)

Yeah, if I'm dealing with total miniature game neophytes, I plan on going Zero-hero 85(ish) points.

Most of my demoees will be WM/Hordes vets, so they expect a fancy super-solo, or unit attachment that adds cool stuff.

Ariano said:

Demo games should be no more that 15 to 20 min. and focuse on the core game play, one mech one troop and a type three unit per side is all you need. works all the time for us, often time this is only the first half of the demo after folks get the basics youll be asked questions about list building army types and history of the game, figure 45 to hour per person or small group , Ill follow that with a more balanced game were each side takes a small army and I coach them thru a few rounds usually after they bought a starter/core box…One mistack alot of folks do is try holding a full game with a new player as the demo what happens is they get a mental over load and think the games to much for thier little brain….try avoiding newbie over load just some advice from a ten year store owner( whos demos more than a few games pray for me…lol ) hope its helpfull ; )

New England AT-43! (Alternate Timeline 1943) said:

Agreed. I should have titled the thread, "Starter Lists for experienced miniature players new to Dust." Which is the bulk of my demos anymore. Pretty rare we get a complete neophyte wannabe gamer walk in our FLGS.

sounds reasonable to me…