Adeptus-B said:

I find my self in agreement with this. That said, there is difference between realistic consequence, fun consequence, and ******* GM consequence.

In this case what would might be interesting would be Kill-Team to be gathering evidence before they make there move, and then presenting the information to their Watch-Captain. Either before the deed and get the Watch-Captains approval, or afterwards at an inquiry performed by the Deathwatch.

The key here, is too neither allow playing to run wild as cowboy cop marines but at the same time encourage them to take an active interest in what NPCs do.

Essentialy by playing smart and being prepared the players should be able to avoid most reprecussions for the act.

I think it is important to remember that the goal, in the end, is to provide an example of why it is totally awesome to be a Space Marine.

So maybe they off the guy, it looks like there is going to be tension, and then a mission comes up that only the Kill Team can acomplish, and suddenly everyone is begging for their help.

AluminiumWolf said:

Well… the goal is more to have a totally awesome storyline that makes people want to high five after each mission. Sometimes, that requires you to explore why it sucks to be an astartes.

The Kill-team murder an inquisitor. They claim it is due to his heretical practices, but the Inquisitors allies within the Ordos call for censure of the Astartes. Stripped of their armour and weapons, the Kill-team are exiled, banished from the light of the Imperium. Stranded and alone, the Kill-team have an option - give in to despair and join the renegades and traitors that lurk on the edge of the Light of Him On Earth, or to find a way to clear their names and cut out the cancer riddling the Ordos that dared to cast out His most loyal servants. Finding that the herestical inquisitor they destroyed is just the tip of the corrupt iceberg, the Astartes use all their skilsl to find the master of the Inquisitor that betrayed them and put them down for good.

BAM! Awesomeness. It has everything you need - betrayal; redemption; putting the characters into unfamiliar situations; filling your players with fear as you make them play through a section of the game with no armour, black market weapons they can scavenge from wherever they're dumped, and no backup; and a bit of a shake up from the standard Deathwatch storyline. Perfect. Hell, I might do it to my players.

I think it's i could balance to strike would be that sure they can kill the inquisitor, but first they need to get their facts straight. Maybe, the Watch-Captain "exiles" them but really sends them off on covert op with the intention of sending them away while the politics of the situation.

AluminiumWolf said:

To me the goal is to have an internally-consistent setting where the player's actions have consequences. Even if they do totally awesome things, a single squad of Space Marines is hardly the biggest, nastiest thing on the block in all circumstances. Especially social ones.

You want Space Marines to be Exalted. They're not.

Kshatriya said:

Although even I have to admit that the Imperium of Man invading Creation would be one hell of a hilarious and awesome game!

Cue inevitable Space Marine vs Dragon-Blood thread.

Kshatriya said:

Bah - cue Scarlett Empress - Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided. Also, totally renaming her and doing that in Dark Heresy now.

Kshatriya said:

The fluff makes a lot more sense if they are.

AluminiumWolf said:

Not with how frequently they die. And how easily/trivially, at times.

Kshatriya said:

Well sure, but that is just part of wondering why a tiny handful of not very impressive soldiers get so much press.

Aaaaaaaaaand let's divert back onto the subject of this thread before it devolves into another discussion on the level of powers that astartes should be wielding in everyday life. A brief question to get the appropriate topic being discussed again:

Under what circumstances should astartes of the Deathwatch kill an Inquisitor - what is the minimum step that an Inquisitor must take before a kill-team turns on them?

If anyone has read the latest Grey Knight based novel by Aaron Dembski-Bowden, they'll know that that question becomes a fairly central question to the POV character (attempting to give away as little as possible). As far as canonical sources for this debate go, that's the only example I can really htink of.

In the first Deathwatch novel (Warrior Brood?), this topic comes up. Don't want to spoil it, of course.

It's really going to boil down to the Radical/Puritan leanings of the KT itself. A Black Templar is going to put up with a lot less than a Space Wolf, for example. There's not a good bright line.

I confess, I'm still to read the Deathwatch novels… (I know, I'm a bad person and a worse DWGM) - are they any good? I've had a fair number of bad experiences outside of the top tier Black Library authors, so unless it's written by Graham McNeil, Dan Abnett, or Saint Dembski-Bowden (so I have a bias, sue me ) I generally am fairly hesitant to buy them. Unless it's a Horus Heresy novel, at which point I'll buy them and then want to find and smack Gav Thorpe upside his story ruining head.

It's….uh, it's… C.S Goto. But it was alright, anyway The second one was kind of meh, but Warrior Brood was neat. Definitely agree with McNeill and Abnett. Can't recall a Dempski-Bowden book at the moment, but Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain books are great fun, and pretty frikkin' funny to boot.

ANYWAY, this would be something seen in the eyes of the Kill-Team as far as immediate actions go. As Space Marines, they may just risk the whole exile thing to do what is right and pop a dude who they think has crossed the line, but it would still be a very grave decision. On the other hand, if he pops up with a Daemon Sword and his Kill-Team is all "lolno" and put him down, I couldn't see the Kill-Team's superiors from bein' too hard on e'm for it. It's all relative, and really depends on who the nearby Inquisitors and DW authorities are.

Kshatriya said:

If you are looking at it like that, and we pretty much are, then the Astartes are pretty much completely puritan. There are chapters that can be considered Radical but they are in statistically insignificant minority. Confiding in known dodgy chapters is one thing, hoping that in a group of marines from different chapters are mostly going to turn a blind eye to what the rest of the Imperium would consider heresy is a serious error in judgement.

It seems to me what several individuals here, particularly those talking about "exiling" an Astartes, are forgetting or failing to understand are the political relationships involved. And in my opinion, in a Dystopian feudal setting such at 40k, the politics matter far more than the "technicalities" of the situation.

For those advocating story consequences such as censure, exile, or execution of marines, remember that the organizational structure, at it's most basic description goes Emperor, High Lords of Terra, and down from there. Chapter Masters and Lord Inquisitors are parallel underneath the Lords of Terra, with marines and Inquisitors subordinate to each of those, respectively.

Keep in mind the Deathwatch does NOT report directly to the Inquisition, but nor does it actually have a Chapter Master. They have the Watch Commanders as the highest rank. Therefore, the answer to the OP question (again, at the most basic) comes down to this:

OP (paraphrased): What consequences are there for a Space Marine [be it PC or NPC] to kill an Inquisitor?

40k Universe Legal Answer: Does the Watch Commander give a ****? If yes: whatever the disciplinary methods he (the commander) uses for such a violation. If no: Nothing.

That's it. Pretty clear cut, right? "Well", you say, "but the Inquisition are not to be ****** with!" Too right, but only when they can muster resources. And that's where it becomes a lot less black/white and a lot more grey. Example: A lone Inquisitor gets taken down by a Space Marine. SM tells his Commander, "oh he was actually evil." Commander didn't like that Inquisitor anyway. Dead inquisitor had a buddy. Buddy is a newb Inquisitor who barely has a cadre. Space Marine goes about his day.

Alternatively, change that to say, "Buddy is a mid-level Inquisitor who is friends with mechanicus/sector governor/the Watch Commander/some other big juju important guy." Suddenly, the Watch Commander might be obliged to care, even if he doesn't really care.

Furthermore and finally, Space Marines sent to the deathwatch might skew puritan, but they also are vulnerable to Hubris. That's one of the key themes listed in the DW core book. So if this radical Inquisitor in your game can slowly get the PC's to buy into the thinking of "the ends justify the means" when it comes to working with Xenos, eventually they're just as radical as he is. At that point, particularly if they're incommunicado for a long time, they may have Inquisitors and/or kill teams coming after them.

Politics are likely to play a large part in how things play out.

I thought "Lord Inquisitor" was just a nice title with no actual extra power over a normal Inquisitor. Like a "first among equals" thing that comes from respect. A Lord Inquisitor has the power that other Inquisitors allow him to have, probably because the Lord Inquisitor is able to bring disparate viewpoints together to accomplish goals, or has a particularly strong power-base of agents and favors himself.

The Inquisition is explicitly not under the High Lords of Terra. The Inquisition is only under the Emperor himself…hence why they have so much free-ranging power.

No extra *official* power. But to be acknowledged as a lord by one's peers implies huge respect and influence.

All Inquisitors are equal but some are more equal than others.

Well Inquisitors of Ordo Malleus when not hunting daemons are supposed to act as something like an internal affairs agency for the Inquisitions. The Malleus Remit gives them the extra judicial authority to crack down on anybody. Space Marine, High Lord of Terra, the Inquisitorial Representative, and anyone else short of the Emperor himself are subject to the wrath of the Ordo Malleus.

But even still, the idea that Inquisitors are all powerful, even the Ordo Malleus, and can orchestrate someone's doom with the stroke of a pen is more myth than fact. People with powerful political connections can resist the Inquisition better than is usually let on (which is why they so often work clandestinely). Lord Sector Hax isn't going to go quietly just because your fancy brooch has an =][= on it. Likewise, Space Marines are also tricky.

Remember that the Space Wolves laid a brutal smackdown on an Ecchlesiarchical fleet, complete with Soriritas contingent, because they weren't going to tolerate someone tramping all over their planet looking to convert the pagan Fenrisians. And no consequences are listed (surely there were some, but it's not like they had their very own Badab-style war).

And then of course there's the Soul Drinkers (or someone else?) on the other side, who had their entire Chapter excommunicated because a single Inquisitor with a stick up his butt objected to some canabalistic ritual of their's.

Which brings us to how Space Marines aren't strictly puritanical, per se… Yeah, they hate the alien and mutant, and especially the traitor, but most of them wouldn't care if you didn't believe the Emperor was a God, for instance (though that wouldn't absolve you of a need to show due respect). Likewise they have varying levels of tolerance of mutancy, it seems. Since some Chapters outright loathe abhumans alongside any other mutants, while others are at least said to tolerate them (same with psykers, there's the Silver Skulls and Blood Ravens on one end and the Black Templars on the other). So I'd dare say the issue is let cut and dry, as the Astartes are really group all alone to themselves, with more than a little variance within that group (despite so many Ultramarines successors, a lot still diverge from the Codex it seems).

Hell, if the Grey Knights can be toned down from 100% Puritan, all the time, then 'regular' Astartes can be looked at in a similar light. Afterall, sometimes the Puritan way just won't work, at which point you have to expect the Space Marines to try something, as they're not going to curl up in to a little ball and weep at their imminent failure. Someone has to be willing to pick up the Chaos Lord's sword and shove it through the Daemon's heart, if need be.

JonnyStorm said:

Well Inquisitors of Ordo Malleus when not hunting daemons are supposed to act as something like an internal affairs agency for the Inquisitions. The Malleus Remit gives them the extra judicial authority to crack down on anybody. Space Marine, High Lord of Terra, the Inquisitorial Representative, and anyone else short of the Emperor himself are subject to the wrath of the Ordo Malleus.

Cite?

Decessor said:

That's all that I meant. =)