Is Turncloak's effect a lasting and thus terminal, effect? The wording makes me think that it is - "If you do not win dominance, discard this character from play." - since discarding a dupe still won't change the condition that the player did not win dominance. If it was worded "After you lose dominance,…", then I would say there is a trigger point where the passive effect applies once and only once.

I think this may have already been covered, but with the search feature nerfed, I can't find it. Thanks!

Then by that reasoning, every Refugee should be discarded every time you do not win dominance, because eventually, you'll run out of gold after the "if you do not win dominance" terminal effect kicks in. (From that example, you can probably see where the answer is going.)

"If you do not win dominance" is going to be passive, not terminal, effect because not winning dominance is a single event or occurrence, not a character "state" or status in the game. You can only win/lose something once, so you only discard once (and can save from it).

And, btw, not winning dominance and losing dominance are two different things. There could be a tie - so no one loses, but no one wins.

Hmmm, shoulda figured that out, since lasting/constant effects have no initiation point whereas this card's effect obviously does. And I failed to realize the text mirrors the refugee's text as well - that would have made the answer pretty obvious. Thanks.

Yeah. It'd be a pretty rough game if those types of effects became constant!

sabrefox said:

Lasting effects do have a point of initiation (the distinguishing factor being that they also have a specific end point, too).

And there are constant effects that, while not having a point of initiation, have conditions placed on them that can look like points of initiation. For example, if a card said "Your characters get +2 STR while defending," that is a constant effect - but the conditions for applying it ("while defending") are easy to mistake for a point of initiation. (Even though there is no effect that initiates to give the character the +2, the act of declaring it as a defender makes it eligible for the bonus from the already active constant effect. To a lot of people, it's a "blue green" vs. "green blue" distinction.)