Hey guys,

Say a unit is out of weapon range when it starts it's move, then it ends it's move within 12 inches of an enemy unit. Can the enemy unit only react "after" the move, or does it have the option to react before the move is completed.

….I'm not even sure if that's a possible scenario lol. I recall reading the movement/reaction rules and being a little confused about certain situations that might arise, but maybe it's a little more obvious once you play the game (we're playing in a couple of hours).

Jarrett

Pg. 34 Enemy miniatures that make a move action that "begins" or "Ends" within 12" of any miniature in the unit.

Also same page second section/paragraph or reaction restrictions. The reacting unit must declare and execute its reaction either "before" the activating unit moves or "After" it has completely finished moving

So no you cannot interupt the movement of the unit as you react before or after the movement that triggers the reaction.

What if your oponent is making double move? can you react in the middle of his movement? I said you can't because march move is one action, but my friend said its silly. Same with walkers, when they take double move can they adjust facing twice?

Galadhir said:

Lid say no to the first, but have been ruling it yes to the second. I know that might seem inconsistent, but it's what made the most sense to us here. I'm more likely to be wrong on the second than the first though, rules as written. It's not explicitly stated either way on the second. It's pretty clear on the first, "either before or after the active unit's move action."

You are not moving twice. It is not two separate actions, it is a march move, one move taking up two actions in the same way as sustained attack is not two attacks but a special attack that takes up two actions. March move is a special move taking up two actions and it is why it has special rules that allow it to disregard movement penalties through terrain, etc. At least, that is how I see it. Otherwise they would not have called it march move and gave it special rules. They would have simply said, "you can move two separate times, one for each action, declaring a move then move." As is it, you declare either a move then attack, attack then move, sustained attack or marchmove. I can't see it being ruled any other way. While in the header for "March move" it has double move in parenthesis, so does sustained attack have the words double attack in parenthesis and we know they do not attack twice. In the description for march move it states " A unit taking A MARCH MOVE ACTION" (note the word action, not actions as they are not moving two times taking two separate actions but one special ACTION that takes up two) "moves twice its move characteristic." Again it says that you move twice your move characteristic, not two separate moves of your normal move characteristic.

The clincher to this is how the paragraph above it titled "Double actions" is worded. It states, "Rather than taking two separate actions, units may choose to spend twice the amount of time concentrating on a single action- this is referred to as executing a double action. When using a double action, the unit must declare that it is doing so, and spend both actions to perform ONE double action" (note, ONE DOUBLE ACTION…one)

By the wording of the rule, it seems clear to me at least.

Opponent declares march move, if they start within 12" you can react immediately, otherwise you must wait for them to complete their march move and if they are now within 12" once they have finished their move, you can react then.

Tell your friend he is wrong.about interrupting your move half way through.

I Agree a march move is a single action or moving twice that uses both of a units actions and on vehicles I do it the same way one turn of up to 90 at the start or end of the move as it is a single action of moving twice but really if you want to count it as two move actions I guess you can house rule it. I don't have my book in front of me but I am pretty sure a double move with a vehicle is still called a march move so the same rules apply

I concur the more I think about it, about the only one turn because it's only one move for the Walkers. It's only come up once in all the games I've played (couple dozen at least), and it was actually today during a demo with a rules-lawyery WM player. I basically let him talk me into it because he'd already interrupted the demo several times to chat with other folks and I just wanted the game to end. Normally I'd take the time to look it up, but there were a number of other folks looking for a game, and this guy hadn't been in the FLGS for over a month because he's foster parenting 3 additional kids and travels a lot for work. I just wanted him to have fun, and I wanted to get on to playing with folks who were scheduled to play. I'm sure now I ruled it wrongly.

I knew I was right calling it a single special movement and telling him hes not allowed to react in the middle of my march move but somehow it feels wrong and I understand his reasoning, if you have time to react to a unit who walks into your reaction radius and try to shoot at you, you should be able to react when the same squad runs past your nose from one cover to another spread 12'' apart… Also it will be difficult to maneuver vehicles on march move.

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

I agree a walker can only turn once in a march move. It makes airdrops scarier because the walker has to struggle to hide its soft backside.

Galadhir said:

Running in amarch move or walking in a normal move makes no real difference. If they started within 12" of you whether they declare a normal move or march move you can react before they move. If they started outside of 12 and moved in during a normal move, you react when they are done moving and are within 12. You still get to react before they can attack. Same thing for a march move. If they are simply getting within 12 at some point during the move but leaving again then it actually makes more sense that they can't react during a march move rather than the other way around. They start outside of 12 so you can't react. Then during their movement get within 12 but by the time they finish their movement are outside of 12 as they just moved into and out of your range to get to a piece of cover for instance. You can't react react to them as per the rules, but it actually makes more sense dring a march move as at least in a march move you can imagine them running full blast, which makes more sense than if they were just taking a leisurely stroll past you. At least that is how I see a march move. The unit going all out and is how I picture how they negate movement penalties in terrain. They are running full tilt, jumping over things, one guy stumbles but the man behind him grabs him and drags him back to his feet, wack yourself on something or twist something but keep going anyway… adrenaline pumping, etc.

You will never truly have a wargaming ruleset that lends itself to 100 per cent realism, because the game would probably really suck, take 3 weeks to play and need a team of lawyers to get through a session. All things considered, this seems to strike a nice balance between having a fun game and keeping things plausible. But there will always be that one guy that cries about everything and "how come I can't do this. This is BS." "How come his gun does the same as my gun because in the real world this gun is better than that guy. This is BS." etc. Normally this person just likes another game exclusively and is derisive to anyone who even mentions another game. I don't let people pick and choose which rules to follow and which they can ignore because they don't like them. If absolutely everyone involved prefers to play the rule differently, then that is different… house rule it, but I never just give in to some guy that wants to only play by the rules when it suits them or when it is to their advantage.

That's me though… I have little patience for people that stand on the sidelines criticizing a game that they are not playing…. "We know, we know, 40k is the greatest… no, we don't want to play against your Grey Knights, go away meatball." I just ran into this kind of guy recently and did tell him to "go away meatball" Sometimes I just get rubbed the wrong way… of course I have anger issues, lots of tattoos, 2 black belts and train Mixed martial artists so people normally leave me be when I get all ornery. Since I am super pleasant guy the rest of the time and a good sport win or lose (as long as we both follow the rules), I can get away with it.

Galadhir said:

Along with what Strombole said, I'd like to flesh out the biggest reason for not reacting during the middle of a March Move in a game. I (along with several others) discovered it as a Playtester a number of years back of a different ruleset which has reactions. Stopping a unit mid-move would basically be targeting one guy only, as most folks are holding their measuring device in one hand while moving a single model with their other. So, logistically it would be a nightmare when targeting a unit, to determine ranges and cover mid-move. - Until gamers grow as many arms as they have guys in a unit +1, it's going to be unworkable and a huge argument waiting to happen. Plus, it's amazing how often stopping mid move to roll dice made people forget how far they had left to move when some of their unit survive.

Now, game mechanics aside, from a RL standpoint, aside from running like the devil himself is after you when crossing open ground in a war zone, which definitely describes a March Move, even a regular move would be illogical to stop in the middle. One should envision a regular move in a combat zone to be guys using every ounce of cover & concealment - dips, ridges, bushes, gulleys, dead animals, war detritus, etc. - as they move. It gets even more tense in difficult terrain, where one moves a few feet, then listens, checks corners, then continues when ones breathing settles back down. This is nicely represented by the 3" move in difficult terrain. I spent some time in some jungles back in the 80's, and being able to walk 4' away from someone/something you don't even know is there (had a wild boar scare me nearly to death once), one gets very, very cautious. But once weapon fire starts up nearby, it's amazing how much rough ground you can cover cutting a trail while rushing to flank the enemy who are taking your buddies under fire. Voilá, March Move through rough terrain.