I know this might sound silly, but When and How am I supposed to do some of these "checks",.. ? The campaign will say "have the player do an observation check",.. Is the GM supposed to say " ok,.. bill,.. give me an observation check." or is the GM supposed to wait for the PC to say " I want to do an observation check"? It seems like the former gives away a lot,.. now the player "knows" that there is something there to see or observe,… I know most situations are different and I can call it like I want to, but I was hoping to hear from an experienced GM as to how he handles some of these "checks".

Thanks,…

well that totally depends on the situation. if the player asks what he sees in a room you will say "make an observation check to determine what you see". if you don't only do that when it is stated in the book but also at places where there is nothing to find the players will not recognize which check is the one to find something.

on checks like these i roll the challenge (purple) dice hidden and the player just rolls his observation skill dice open (characteristic+training+specialisation). that way all the player knows is how many successes and boons he got but not how many banes or challenge symbols.and from that i can determine the result and tell him what he sees. examples:

there is something to be seen/found in the room:

• the check was successful with boons/sigmar's comet left : the PC finds the clue or item that he was intended to find and maybe also gets another idea on the clue itself
• the check was successful: the PC finds the clue
• the check failed with boons left: the player cannot find the item, but he may find a mysterious clue leading to the the item he should find. (something cryptic, so the player has to think
• the check failed: the PC finds nothing of any use
• the check failed with a chaos star: this is where you can have some mad fun! have the player find a totally misleading clue, have him find a book that gives him an insanity when reading etc etc

sometimes, when i don't want to disturb my players in the story mode and just tell them what they can see without them making a check i make the check for them but without telling them. for that you need to know your player's stats but its sometimes worth it.

maybe the party is being pursued by a group of goblins who want to sneak up to them. so it would be an observation check for the player with the highest intelligence. but if you told him/her to make an observation check they would know that there is something to find/see/recognize, so you roll for them and let the story unfold the way you rolled!

hope that helped a little

This is a classic (the classic?) GM issue. Back in Olden Days, when we didn't roll all these dice for each check GMs used to record all the "passive" scores of a player character (such as perception) and roll from th secrecy of his GM screen, only when they successfully passed. This, of course, led to GMs rolling dice behind the screen for no purpose other than to frown, shake his head, and look like he's making notes. This was often done under the guise of "keeping the players on their toes." Those days are largely behind us, but each GM needs to find his own solution to the problem.

I believe the expectation of the adventure designers is that the GM says, "Everyone give me an Easy Perception roll!" So yes, the players will be aware that they made a roll and whether they passed or failed… the question is what do you do with that information.

In my games I encourage my players to act in full accordance with their rolls, so if they make a Perception roll and fail, they are expect to have their character act as if nothing happened. In our group, this usually is the more fun option, as players say things like, "Okay, my hunter is trying to figure out what type of bird that there as he steps on the otherwise obvious trap." The key here is Dramatic Irony (which I think deserves capitals). The players should get to enjoy knowing that what their character is doing is a horrible idea. And I try to reward doing sub-optimal but character-appropriate actions by adding fortune to the fortune pool. It's like yelling, "Don't go in the basement!" knowing the characters will. Of course, the challenge is the players are both audiance and actor.

This doesn't work for every group, but I still recommend giving it a shot.

There is something to be said about preserving the mystery for the players, remember the golden rule of GMing is that you are the host of your players entertainment, so the goal is to make sure THEY have a good time playing the game. So the more nuances and fun you can infuse into the session the better.

One way I like to handle observation checks which is not only fun, but maintains the mystery is to do the check on the behalf of the players and to do the check as a group without them knowing that what Im actually rolling for. Imagine at a game table the GM suddenly builds a dice pool and rolls to determine that "something" is about to happen but the players have no idea what its about. It has a nice "oh oh" effect on the session.

An example of setting up such a roll is …

lets say the group is traveling along the road and their is an observation check that should be made to see if they can spot the ambush a bunch of beastmen have prepared. I might say something like "ok who is leading the party here, who is on point". I will set up the observation check dice as if that player is making the roll (aka using his characteristic dice, his stance, his skill) without him knowing what exactly Im rolling for. Than I add 1 fortune to the dice pool for each player that has the observation skill trained or has claimed to be paying attention or is in a position to potentially spot the ambush and perhaps 1 misfortune for anyone doing anythign that might be distracting like having a conversation or something like that.

Than I simply make the roll for the players, without them knowing why Im rolling and I work the results into the story.

Observation checks in as a whole is something you should make liberal use of, players should always have the opertunity to "SPOT" things in the game world of note. Its kind of part of creating that dynamic reality for them, after all, as players they only know about what you tell them about. So you want their accutity for spoting things to be built into their characters abilities so it becomes a benefit. Same as having a character with a good guile skill, or a character with the education skill. Always make sure that the characters gain their characters skill benefits by knowing what their skills are and how they can be applied to any given situation.

I throw "checks" at the players all the time. In fact, I have a chart of checks on my GM folio (with a d30 randomization in case I'm feeling frivolous..which I frequently am).

Skill checks (and frequent skill checks at that), are a GRRRRRREAT way to get players to stop thinking about combat being the only way to solve things and to trick out their characters in ways other than combat, combat, combat.

You have to let your players know they shouldn't metagame. You do this either before or during the game just as a "friendly reminder":

• If the GM calls for an observation check, and you fail it, you don't METAGAME and tell the other players "Hey the GM made me make an observation check, somethign must be going on."
• Tell your players to be creative when you ask for checks: Do I get a bonus for sight (or whatever) if they are specialized.

Lastly, tell your players that you WELCOME them requesting to make a skill check. Here's the protocol: Hey Mr. GM, I'd like to climb a tree to get a better look. MAY I MAKE A CLIMB CHECK OR SOMETHING?

That's all there is to it.

jh

WOW,.. TONS of very helpful advice,.. I see utilizing a combination of all the ideas offered. Thank you guys soo much, it will help our game a thousand fold,… thanks again,..