Hello, I think this is complicated but I wanted to see if it even works timing wise.

I was trying to figure out how to use Asshai in a Baratheon deck without having to use the Val + TLS combo for draw. I came across the attachment:

1st card is Ruby of R'hllor:

Type: Attachment House: Baratheon
Cost: 2
Item.
Asshai character only. Vigilant.
Attached character is immune to opponent's events.
Response: After a card is discarded from an opponent's hand, kneel Ruby of R'hllor to draw 1 card.
Set: KotStorm

So, this item has Vigilant.

Next Card is Altar of Fire:
Type: Location House: Baratheon
Cost: 1
Storm's End.
Response: After you win an Intrigue challenge in which at least 1 Holy character participated, kneel Altar of Fire to look at the losing opponent's hand. Choose and discard 1 card from that hand.
"Any cat may stare into a fire and see red mice at play."
Set: RoR

Can this combo work?

1. I win in INT challenge with a Holy Crest character.
2. I discard a card for claim and then trigger the Ruby by kneeling it and draw a card.
3. Then, since I won, Vigilant makes the Ruby stand again from winning the INT challenge.
4. Then, I trigger the Altar of Fire for winning the INT challenge with a Holy Crest character.
5. Then, due to the discard off the Altar of Fire, I trigger and kneel the Ruby a second time to get another draw.

Is the timing right, or am I messed up? I ask because why give the Ruby printed Vigilant keyword? Are the designers intending you to have to do another INT to get the Ruby to trigger again? Or can you use this type if setup to get it to go off twice? Thanks and sorry for the long setup.

AceManUSC said:

Seems legit. I don't know of any rule or ruling that specifies there is a certain timing to standing Vigilant cards, so any time after you win should be good.

Oh wait… since Vigilant isn't a Response: shouldn't it resolve as a passive effect? Which puts it before Responses ? Ah, I don't have my timing details with me, and this is making my head hurt.

I've always been fuzzy on the timing of Vigilant and Vengeful. What is the timing of an "after you win/lose" keyword?

Vigilant happens before any responses since it's a keyword (vigilant, renown, vengful happen before responses)

BBSB12 said:

Note that renown happens before passive abilities as a framework event.

Only then some other keywords trigger as passive abilities (Deadly, Vigilant, Vengeful…)

So it sounds like I can't get the combo to work like I wrote it above? I want trigger stand trigger and it sounds like it goes stand trigger trigger.

KristoffStark said:

AceManUSC said:

Bolzano said:

AceManUSC said:

Thank you everyone for your input. I will go back to the drawing board and figure how to get two uses out of the Ruby each Challenges phase.

You should be able to trigger this off of Ghost of High Heart at the beginning of Challenges. Kneel to draw. Win an INT challenge, it stands for vigilance, then kneel to draw again. Then win any other challenge to trigger the vigilance again and use Confession, and kneel to draw again. However, that's a lot of pieces for card draw. Using some event cards or plots to do multiple INT challenges could help also.

You could also go with the Kings of WInter agenda to start off with them discarding a card so you can use your attachment to draw one.

Nope.

King's of Winter is a passive at the end of the Draw phase. No Responses can be used in the "end of phase" framework action window. So you cannot take advantage of the Agenda's discard with the Ruby.

Ah that's too bad.