I'll get right to it. The Blood Angel Apothecary in my group wishes to have a mechadendrite he could mount a narthecium or other medicae-related gear on. My first quandary is can he even get the proper implants and talents? Would it be slightly heretical for an Astartes that isn't a servant of the Omnissiah to receive such gifts? My second quandary, if the aforementioned was somehow acceptable, is what talents, what mechanicus implants, and what skills would he need to effectively use a mechadendrite?

I have a few ideas but would greatly appreciate some feedback from other GMs.

Thank You.

Cromagnum Man said:

No

Cromagnum Man said:

There is nothing slightly about it, yes.

Cromagnum Man said:

Look at the Tech Marine.

Ultimately it's up to you, but I would be weary about stepping on the territory of the Tech Marine.

Further more we are talking about blood priest willingly putting cyber in the "sanguinus corpus"…

Just don't buy it.

Maybe should he reads more about Blood angel novels.

Sounds like a rather bad idea and not at all Blood Angel -like.

Before giving an answer, I think it's more imporant to know why the player wants this upgrade. Is it becuase he likes the idea of mechadentrites/thinks it would look good, because it frees up his hand for using more weapons, or some other reason?

If he's in this because he can get a mechanical benefit out of it? Then I would disallow it. If he wants it because it's pretty cool, has a good in game justification, and doesn't really care about mechanical benefits? I don't see why there's an issue allowing him to just describe it slightly differently.

To answer you dear kylan.

Indeed a Iron Hand, maybe Salamanders apothicary could have a medical mechadentrite, but look at the blood angel and tell me you will buy it…

Please, evan Compagny captain who suffer heavy damage prefer to keep damage flesh cover with engraved gold mask rather than cyber replacement.

Tycho and any Blood Angel will prefer die rather than being change from the perfect template of a perfect primarch.

I always felt that mechadendrites required the Mechanicus implants, which, in and of themselves, require years of study at a forge world, and a significant amount of downtime to standard play if such a thing were to happen mid-game. These things are not handed out to just anyone, especially ones sized for Astartes.

That, combined with the above stated detail that the Blood Angels lack a desire to get implants/bionics, implies to me that its just not going to fly.

Where I'm coming from is that in a galaxy with one million space marines, there are one million individual heroes, each with their own sagas, preferences and appearance. Like I say, it entirely depends how they want the Mechadendrites to function and look as to whether the player should be able to define his characters appearance, even if it is unusual for the chapter.

A snake like tentacle that coils up in the characters arm, whipping out to dispense injections is a mecadendrite and you're right - that doesn't look any good. But imagine an alabaster, ruby and gold version of Fabius Bile's back rig. Still classes as mechadendrite, but looks fine for a Blood Angel apothecary. Hell, I might give it to mine.

The chapter is the most important influence in character motivation, I agree. But we know nothing else about the other characters motivation. I could come up with a half dozen different stories off the top of my head as to why a cybernetically enhanced Blood Angel would work (and, let's face it, I would if I didn't have a meeting to run off too - I love spamming these forums with stories) so there's nothing stating that this isn't perfectly in character.

If you can make the cybernetics aesthetically legitimate to the character, the character has sufficient motivation, and you're pretty sure the player isn't just taking a piece of wargear because it gives him the most phat powerz, then there's no reason to not do it.

professor_kylan said:

Who are still pretty tightly bound to the tenets and beliefs of their Chapter. And if they didn't have bliefs very similar to their Chapter, they never would have become a full-blown Astartes of that Chapter. They're incompatible ways of thinking. The most rebellious youth will learn to fight with others, or he'll die. The strongest-willed pre-Astartes guy ever will succumb to the strictures of endless rituals and hypno-doctrination.

I really would love to hear your ideas though. I think it could work with some chapters, and I don't mean just Iron Hands.

Giving anyone but a Techmarine Mechanicus Implants = no, that's heavy niche toe-treading. Apothecaries admittedly need a lot of help, but you don't rob Peter to pay Paul.

Kshatriya said:

I'm talking about the mechadendrite being an additional 'arm' with a narthecium on the end. Mechanicus Implants are not an option (without levels of justification that require such specific circumstances that they are mathematically insignificant). As for justifications…

*The Blood Angel stands over the bodies of the dead. Each face curled back in a rictus of fury, each body shattered by half a dozen blows, any one of which should have felled the astartes. The priest of Sanguinius sighs as he sees the twisted faces of men he called brother, and gets to work. His backpack has been heavy modified and incorporates a half dozen spindly arms that come down low over his pauldrons. Each ends in a blade, a saw, a set of injectors, a drill. In his hands he bears the hydraulic jaws required to open the transhuman form of the astartes for a proper autopsy. He places the tip of the hydralic ram in the puckered wound where the first brother's geneseed had been removed and heaved. As the rib-plates buckled and shattered, the complicated medicae tools closed in to disect, analyse and store samples of the corpse. The apothecary sighed as he finished the analysis and moved to the next body.

*The Imperial Fist apothecary leaned into the weight of enemy fire behind his oversized Storm Shield. The greenskin had realised that his white armour was a sign that he was the medic for the astartes gunline and took delight in attempting to kill him. The apothecary didn't particularly care, as long as the orks were shooting at him, his patients remained safe. Besides, he was no defenseless medicae - he was an Imperial Fist, trained in his bolter drill by the great Lysander himself! The orks would soon learn why it wasn't wise to irritate him. Seeing a fallen brother, the apothecary stepped over the prone body and knelt, hiding both of the astartes behind the giant pavasse he carried. As shots rang off the shield, the servo arm connected to the apothercaries side unfolded and started cycling through the triage routine. With the narthecium-dentrite hard at work, the apothecary set the appropriate medicae paterns through his MIU, drew his bolter and started firing short, devastating fire at teh Orks that dared shoot near his patient. The apothecary took a moment to smile as his wounded brother proped himself up on his newly cauterised arm stump and started firing back as well.

*The stummer-stilled jump pack was ominously silent as the Raven Guard apothecary hit the ground. The jump pack was an old one, the wounded Ultramarine thought. Single thrust unit, decorative wings of soot darkened ceramite. Between the carbon black armour and darkened wings, the apothecary bore an ominous aspect, a throwback to the old supersitions that it was Ravens that bore the souls of the departed to the afterlife. As the apothecary closed, his wings slowly split apart, metallic feathers sliding aside to show a dozen thin, probing servo arms tipped with varied tools of destruction and healing. Without a sound, the apothecary descended on the Ultramarine, wings enclosing him as the servo arms worked their way through armour and flesh, burning away corruption and cauterising the many wounds they found. When their job was complete, the apothecary stood back and jumped off, his pack as strangely silent as when he had arrived.

===

And with the cessation of my lunch break, I don't have time to think of any more. After having a think about how they'd work while writing the above, I think I'd allow people to buy a medicae mecadendrite that they could control with a dedicated MIU and purchased mecadendrite training as an elite advance. Pretty sure that would work mechanically without tipping the balance.

(Also, I know that the examples above aren't really mechadendrite examples, but htey're mechanically the same thing - just as a servo arm is effectively a type of uber-chunky mechadendrite)

Although I generally agree with most things you say, professor, I must respectfully disagree on this point. The prerequisite for taking mecadendrite use is mechanicus or techmarine implants, so mechanics-wise the game designers prevented that from happening. If you want to do it for your game, by all means if it's in your imagination it's valid, but it seems to be specifically prohibited by the book. Stylistically, I guess I don't see a huge problem with Blood Angels taking bionics, I mean they must have tech marines who have all these things. Granted, I really don't know much about that chapter, but what I do know leans toward this not being an option embraced by many individuals outside that select group.

If you want your player to have medicae mechadentrites why not, but it will never happen in my game.

Why Blood Angel would be the last kind of SM doing that? Simple those poor bastards are mutant so devastated that they seems barely human and after their trial and their long sleep full of dreams of sanguinius they become angel incarnate, beautyfull (so much a Sm could be), strong, fast and HEALTHY. Something quite unknown on Baal.

More than any other they value above all the body the god emperor and their angel father gave them so long ago.

But as said earlier you do as you want to.

Instead of a Mechadendrite you could approach it as a relic backpack style narthecium.

Forgotten ancient tech, fell out of use due to it's bulk when compared to the arm mounted unit, but includes some extra goodies. Throw in some skill bonuses other than healing, some extra drug doses and that might work.

First of all, allow me to state that I've realised that I'm that one jerk that keeps posting even when the entire forum disagrees. While usually I'd stop that one guy through attempting to post fluff snippets and calming logic, after coming this far there's no turning back. Mourn for me, gentlemen, for I am lost. That being said…

@Lionus - as long as you open with the phrase "I generally agree with most things you say", you can go on to have whatever opion you please. Flattery DOES work.

@Uncertain - That's pretty much what I'm getting at - a medicae mechadendrite is an extendable arm with medical instruments on the end. Whether that's backpack mounted, a set of armatures built into the wrists of the armour, or otherwise, the mechanics remain the same. Relic versions to increase stat bonuses would be pretty awesome and I now basically wish I'd done that for my apothecary player instead of the relic I threw at him.

@Thebigjul - In almost all cases I agree with you (big BA fan here, they're almost as good as the Imperial Fists and that's a big thing for me to admit to!). But the BA do get cybernetic replacements for lost limbs and the like. Tycho refused the repair work done to his face largely due to his shattered ego and vanity, he's a tragic tale rather than an example of all. While I've spoken at length on the forums that astartes - especially Blood Angels - would never lop off a limb to shove metal in as a replacement, this situation is different. I'm attempting to convey that we may just be talking about a MIU controlled nathecium that is independantly mounted on the marine. A device that allows the Apothecary to work without tying up his hands.

Im certainly not trying to strip you of your opinion either, but i guess i dont understand how you want to run this extra limbed narthicium. So for your game, its allowed. How do you propose to get around the mechanical limitation that in order to gain mechdendrite use, a sm needs mechanicus implants?

If you want to make it a mechadendrite without calling it a mechandendrite, I…I guess that's fine? And servo-arms ARE mechadendrites - otherwise they wouldn't require Mechadendrite Use as a Talent in order to interface with them, and even Tech-Priests have Servo-Arms (in, I think, Ascension, where that piece of equipment is located for Dark Heresy along with the Servo-Arm use talent).

My whole point is the underlying Trait required for true mechadendrites is Mechanicus Implants, which only Techmarines will ever get, having been steeped in the Cult of the Machine God for decades shortly after gene-seed implantation.

So at best a non-mechadendrite narthecium-augmetic is going to be something that approximates AdMech mechadendrites, while being less effective (if the device was made post-30k) or possibly more effective but esoteric, weird, and startling (if the device is pre-30k/DAoT).

Also while I like your examples, actually implementing them might be sorta OP (and I realize that mechanics weren't your intent but felt like I had to comment). Medicae-ing multiple patients simultaneously, allowing other actions while performing First Aid, and…some creepy RG thing. =P Those are all above and beyond the basic narthecium's capability and on a metagame level the first two counterbalance the (IMO) reasonable action restrictions on performing First Aid in combat time: one patient at a time, Full Action for both doctor and patient.

Also again while your examples are cool…why would a chapter develop that kind of gear when the tried-and-true narthecium has worked for 10,000 years and is probably featured in the Codex Astartes?

My way of dealing with the Mech. Implants trait is to ignore it. Change it up to a required dedicated MIU or Cerebral Plug. Possibly work out a new piece of wargear that says somehting along the lines of "While equipped, the battle brother counts as having the Mechanicus Implants trait for the purpose of installing medicae mechadendrites." and charge a ton for elite mechadendrite training.

Really, the only check and balance system in the game when it comes to wargear is requisition. I'd set the initial implant that allows the connection of a mechadendrite as a bionic (one shot purchase) but require the m.m to be requisitioned each mission.

Also, @Kshatriya, you know you love the RG example. Also, I wouldn't have a problem with a high ranking apothecary being able to trim first aid down to a half action, at severe penalties. But that would be for very high level characters and would probably only allow a fraction of normal healing. But that's a horrible exploding discussion for another thread