Corpse Lake: Response: After a triggered effect discards 1 or more characters from the top of an opponent's deck, claim 1 power for your House. (Limit 3 times per round.)
Say I am able to trigger this preplot twice. It then gets bounced to my hand with Search and Detain. During marshalling, I play this again. How many times can I trigger this for the rest of the round? Is it only once, or does the game "forget" that it was in play beforehand?
Limits on abilities triggered while the card is in play are "per card" unless otherwise specified. When a card leaves play and later re-enters play, it is considered to be a new, separate copy of the card. That means that even if it is the same piece of cardboard, the card has no "memory" of anything affecting cards with the same title that were in play before it. So the limit would effectively be "reset."
This is the same reason characters burned at 0 STR come back at full STR after Narrow Escape.
The only exception to this rule is a limit of once per game, I believe.
Khudzlin said:
*Casting resurrect*
Was wondering about Corpse Lake being played in Melee, and I felt it better to resurrect the old thread instead of starting a new one.
So, the text on Corpse Lake states:
Response: After a triggered effect discards 1 or more characters from the top of an opponent's deck, claim 1 power for your House .
Now, does this mean that you can:
1) Only trigger Corpse Lake once per triggered effect (I heard that a Judge at Stahleck ruled it this way, although the card was in Spanish, so they couldn't really reference the exact wording at that point).
OR
2) Once per player per triggered effect (I could see it going that way as well, since the effect states the characters in plural but the opponents as "an opponent").
EDIT: No idea why the Forums just wanted to change the color of my text… must be the copy-paste for the cardtext. Interesting functionality, seeing as the built-in editor doesn't allow changing of text color.
I think the ruling was right.
There's a single point of initiation of "a triggered effect" discarding cards. There aren't multiple triggered effects discarding cards allowing for multiple responses.
If you changed the verbage to "Response: After an opponent discards 1 or more characters from the top of their deck due to a triggered effect, claim 1 power." then each opponent discarding would be the point of initiation and multiple opponents discarding would be multiple points of initiation. Corpse Lake lacks that verbage (though that may be designer oversight as that is something that could easily be overlooked).
If it were worded this way, it would be far more powerful (overpowered, I'd say), as you could respond mulitple times to one effect. If cards are discarded 1 at a time, what's to say you can't respond twice to characters coming out of one opponent's deck, seeing as each one being discarded meets the restriction of one or more characters being discarded. As it's worded, it restricts you to responding once per effect, which is reasonable.
The ruling was correct.
The best comparison is Starfall: "Response: After you win a challenge in which a House Dayne character participated…". There is only one win and one challenge, even though there may be multiple House Dayne characters participating. The Response focuses on the challenge - which is characterized by having Dayne characters participate - not the actual characters. As a result, we know that this is "trigger once per challenge," not "trigger once per challenge per participating Dayne," right?
Corpse Lake is pretty much the same thing. "Response: After a triggered effect discards 1 or more characters from the top of an opponent's deck…". There is only one effect, even though there may be multiple characters discarded, or multiple opponent's decks that they were discarded from. The Response focuses on the effect - which is characterized by a character card leaving the top on a deck other than your own - not the actual discarded characters or the actual deck that it was discarded from. So, like Starfall, the "one Response per trigger" rule starts and stops with the effect, not with the character(s) that was (were) discarded.
Ok, good, that makes sense.
The main reason that I wanted to ask was since Corpse Lake is often mentioned as an example of a card with the 'one or more' wording, which in that case ends up being mainly just dead text (if it's already being limited by the triggered effect part, since that would apply to the characters part as well, right?).
Huh… That is an interesting point… It doesn't surprise me, unfortunately. Haha.
WWDrakey said:
And how do I know someone would say this? Because we have errata on Tarle the Thrice Drowned to say "…3 or more power…" since people insisted that he was only discarded if he had exactly 3 power on him.
So, "…1 or more…" on Corpse Lake: dead text or preemptive "don't be stupid" errata? You decide.
ktom said:
Well, with this crowd, it isn't really dead text. Let's say Corpse Lake said "Response: After a triggered effect discards a character from the top on an opponent's deck…" and I used Drowned Disciple to discard 3 cards from the top of someone's deck. Those 3 cards are 2 characters and an event. I go to trigger Corpse Lake. I guarantee you that someone would say I can't do it because "two characters," not "a character" was discarded from my opponent's deck.
And how do I know someone would say this? Because we have errata on Tarle the Thrice Drowned to say "…3 or more power…" since people insisted that he was only discarded if he had exactly 3 power on him.
So, "…1 or more…" on Corpse Lake: dead text or preemptive "don't be stupid" errata? You decide.
Sadly true, hehe. It is dead text, but some that adds value, haha.
mdc273 said:
Braaaaaaaaaains!
Where are the thumbs for the last two posts…. WHY CAN I NOT LIKE THEM!?!?!?!