Alright, so I'm putting together a game aid for first aid and the like and I'm running into a serious WTH? bit of text:

On page 88 of the Player's Guide - the section on First Aid & Immediate care details how to do first aid.

But at the bottom of the page they also include this:

"Medicine checks cannot be performed in the middle of combat, as they require more time and attention to detail than combat generally affords. However, using the Medicine skill carries fewer risks.

Medicine check [sic] only makes matters worse if the check fails and generates 3 or more banes. If this occurs, the target immediately suffers 1 stress and 1 fatigue. If this attempt was to tend to a critical wound, the target immediately suffers 1 normal wound in addition to the stress and fatigue."

So, I read that as -

• you cannot perform Medicine checks in combat - check
• If you do perform Medicine checks the risks of worsening the patient's condition are lower - check

But since this is contained in the First Aid & Immediate Care section:

1. Does this mean that there is some use for the Medicine still as first aid or immediate care?
   
2. Does this mean that all uses of the medicine skill carry the Fail + 3 banes rule? (including aiding a Resilience check after a night's rest, or after a Day of Long Term Care?)
   
3. If the Fail + 3 banes rule for Medical checks doesn't apply to all Medicine checks - Which ones does it apply to and which are exempted from this rule?

Thanks.

1. I don't think there is a hard fast rule here but generally speaking if it happens in combat its automatically a First Aid check, if it happens out of combat its a Medicine check. You can look at it this way. A person with Medicine is a doctor basically in the warhammer universe. A person with First Aid knows what to do when someone is bleeding heavily, choking on a stake or has a toe that has turned black from frostbite. They aren't going to be able to cure you, another words, a person with First Aid can stop the bleeding, but he doesn't know what organ is actually hurt and what needs to happen in order for the person to make a full recovery, he knows enough to stop the bleeding and keep him alive. A person with Medicine would, however it order to perform this medical procedure whatever it might be, the person needs more time than is available in the middle of a battle.

2. Yes, my understanding is that it does by the rules, but again, its a dynamic system, its up to the GM to decide situations in which the rules might change if it make story sense for it to do so. Remember this isn't D&D, you are not given compeltetly fleshed out rules intentionally because the game isn't trying to mimic realitiy its trying to give you the dynamic tools to create the impression of reality.

3. Its up to the GM. Generally the idea behind the 3 bane rule is that given normal circumstances, a person trained in medicine is less likely to cause an injury to get worse. A first aid person doesn't cure you, he just keeps you from dying, but in the process may very well make it worse. For example putting pressure on a wound to keep it from bleeding, but using your dirty hands to do it (later causing an infection that ultimatly kills the patient). A person with medicine knowledge knows better and understands concepts like how to prevent infections etc..

BigKahuna said:

This would mean healing outside of combat requires an advanced skill - which would be a very high bar to clear.

On page 88 of the Player's Guide they have a this bit:

"Outside of a structured encounter, a character can benefit from one successful First Aid check per scene. "

Frankly, I'm wondering where the rules for a straight up Medicine skill check are hiding.

There are rules for using Medicine:

1. to aid in Resilience checks after a full night's rest
2. to add fortune dice to Resilience checks following a day of rest under Long Term Care
3. to add fortune dice to Resilience checks to recover from disease
4. Preparing herbal medicines

…and not a heck of a lot else. The Medicine skill lists a bunch of suggested uses "rudiments of surgery, amputations, cauterisation, treating poisons and disease, suturing and long-term medical care.

I just don't see any rules that deal with doing any of those things.

It would make sense that a character trained in Medicine could do all the things that a character trained in First Aid could do and more, It would just be nice if the rules spelled that out.

It is my assumption that Medicine encompasses everything that the First Aid skill can PLUS some things that only Medicine skill can do.

And no, you can't add expertise dice together if you are trained in both