Hello fellow UFS'ers.

With the recent bannings of a certain werewolf terrorist the UFS meta's lost alot of fear for playing against he who breaks the rules, hence Order's claimed the rights to top spot!

Let's expand my point, more recently at the GCC yohanhair came out on top with an order/spike variant Donovan. And a Kyoshiro deck came 3rd:

• Both Kyoshiro and Donovan sport Order respectively and 7HS 20v.
• They both have access to other competitive symbols.
• Defender loop and LOTM-
• Each has insane card draw and the ability for strong tempo advantage.

Now let's look at each one's individual advantages over the over in terms of charcterwise:

Donovan:

• Nasty card draw and when stringed with attacks can gain up to 3 cards per attack is crazy!
• Can clear the card pool very well to dual symbol ( I imagine Jon utilised this effectively.)
• Has access to supernatural heritage.
• Digs for answers through his attacks.

Kyoshiro:

• Chaos and order chain very well.
• Small.
• Onec per game he becomes a 12HS terror, but it works only once. Still 12HS is 12HS Uses this first turn alongside mulligan and you have a roughly 87% chance of finding the answers you need.
• He can use 1 momentum for powerful and Defender's cost for free pretty much.

My personal favourite is Kyoshiro, however in the long game it's evident that Donovan is a much more solid and reliable charcter, hence why he suceeded against Chun-li.

Tech cards, player skill and other factors will affect these guys performance but hey. They're both top 8 material,

Discuss who's dominant. Thankyou

Cheers

Hanzo

Donovan. He has water, which gives him access to Rejection and Spike.

Kyoshiro's advantage is turn 2 he'll have his 12 card HS and turn 3 possibly be able to Defender loop you.

Kyoshiro also has the ability to use A Mysterious Fighter's R with his Defender loop to cut the loop down slightly...

"He can use 1 momentum for powerful and Defender's cost for free pretty much."

He can't respond to Defender. It doesn't give a damage bonus.

Donovan wins, at least for the time being. Player skill being a factor and all, it's very simple - while Kyoshiro has vastly superior symbols and stats (height), D's *abilities* are infinitely better than the one-time 12HS. D has access to Spike, Rejection, etc., meaning that he, in fact, has the better defense (Defender looping Rejection). Plus, D actually HAS two abilities, as opposed to a one-shot and another that's almost never used. D can bombard you with an almost endless string of attacks and kill you long before his hand runs dry.

O, and thanks for the shout-out =]

Kyoshiro plays the control game 10 x better then donovan if your playing order control or chaos control. Having access to anti k', and easily killing off earth or chaos no problem if you don't wanna go straight order. And his height is really short so most of the time you are drawing 2 from the bigger they are, and it lets you load up your cards to pitch to expereinced combatant.
Donovan is the better aggressive character if that is your intent, as he lets you attack far easier, clear and attack + draw, or spill.

to bad gyulkus isnt still in because that would make kyoshiro over the top.....oh i give 3-6 damge to all my attacks thanks

I'm almost convinced that Hanzo kick beats them both...

Mmm...I dunno. Kyoshiro and Hanzo both have a fantastic symbol spread, but Kyoshiro's happens to be extremely good at shutting crap like Hanzokick down.

(the only reason I say it is because I sat and came up with 12+ answers to Hanzokick on Kyoshiro's symbols prior to starting the tri-symbol build)

But Hanzo does have the almighty Rejection...

...but then he can't loop it. Hmmm....tough one, really. Slight edge to Kyoshiro, I think.

Donovan wouldn't care. He'd just eat Hanzo before it became a problem. Low vitality vs. character with exceptionally high potential for aggro = rough time.

Yeah I kinda gotta agree with Protoaddict. I am certainly not trying to get Hanzo kick banned or anything but it definately is a strong deck right now. I dont think its "too strong" or "broken" simply because there are enough answers to keep it form being over the top atm, but I definately think that it atleast goes toe-to-toe with Donny or Kyoshiro (Another of my choice decks right now) if it doesnt beat them both out.

Protoaddict said:

Hmm... I'm unsure. Being one of the original hanzo players myslef I've tested the almighty Kick loop against Kyoshiro and Donovan (play testing at 3AM with your parents asleep in the opposite room FTW)

My results were:

Kyoshiro 1W 0D 2L ( He lost twice)

Donovan 2W 0D 1L ( He won the matchup.)

My build of Hanzo is centered around eart-evil foundation base to protect the kick loop.

I can ulitmately Conclude that Donovan is more "solid" against the meta ATM over kyoshiro.

Also Sorry for misreading the whole Kyoshiro's R with defender thing

i would have to say i like kyoshiro simply becuase he is shorter. i think a one turn 12hs with +2 draw for each the bigger they are is slightly better than donovan.

I hate to say it but such is the case with most aggro decks, be it donovan, kyoshiro, or Hanzo.

I give the match to whoever wins the cointoss to go first 99% of the time.

Protoaddict said:

Hhahaha well played sir.

I think Donovans better just because he has two abilities that actually do something and because he can run both Spike and the Defender Loop in the same deck with lil to no drawbacks. Not to mention access to Rejection off symbol with no drawback is unfair

could you still build a solid kyoshiro or donovan deck without the defender loop? i was browsing around for singles and defenders are sold out everywhere.

JTakaS4 said:

Most definitely! Defender loop, honestly, is a crutch. It's there if you really want it, but Order's so goddamned strong right now you could very well make a deck without it and win.

The donovan deck John Herr ran at GCC used Feline Spike for the kill.

Yes, it was fairly disgusting to watch.

If only I'd kept that Tag Along in my hand in our second game of Top 8, I would have won (that game, probably still would have lost the match) ;_;

You made it to GCC? Who were you playing? =D

Homme Chapeau said:

defender loop isn't a crutch, it's order's best kill. yes you can win without it but it is a whole lot harder.

yeah order doesnt only have defender loop its just easy because when it kills it kills......but order has reppa......lunar slash.......neo raging storm just to name a few

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

Yes Neo raging I think is going to be the new kill for order playing reppa into that is amazing with a lot of people expecting defender loop.

Scubadude said:

Amen.

That's the OTHER thing i'm going to tech against.

Bring on regionals, i'll be waiting on donny boy. *Sits on pile of kicked to death Kyoshiro*

Ive run into donovan decks and kyoshiro decks respectively. In terms of what im more afraid of facing its got to be donovan. He has the best draw power in the game, second to only maybe promo alex. As mentioned he has access to spike and rejection which can become even more nasty with defender. Kyoshiro is very strong in his own right but i just think Donny is much better as an all around character

Hanzo said:

What is your tech for neo raging storm I wonder besides hacking it ?

trane said:

Hatman was referring to Defender Loop as a "creative crutch" (right?)--players don't have to innovate or think creatively when they have proven and efficient methods with which to kill players.

Also, was it mentioned that Donovan can run Rejection? How about Rejection and Hybrid Style??? That, right there, is all that Donovan should need for damage defense (but he still needs to combat "return to printed effects"), but what good damage defense does Kyoshiro have that Donovan can't also run? Hmm.... Hybrid Style those F-Spikes back to Donovan's hand... smells like synergy!!!!!