So I was thinking, what with Only War coming out and me playing a lot of Battlefield recently. That there isn't really a lot of difference in the weapon types and some seem to be missing are important characteristics. Some have been sorted out by BC's updated rules, I couldn't comment as I don't have BC but am aware of a few. Obviously you make the system as complicated as you like at the expensive of speed, so don't feel the need to say that you aren't going to use them I doubt anyone will but maybe there's a few that can be used as balancing factors (i.e. the weapon types could have a higher damage at the expense of X), just brainstorming really:

Additional Weapon type rules.

Las weapons. Reduce negative modifiers for range and target movement by 10. For every 10m of smoke (or similar atmospheric conditions) fired through reduce the damage of the shot by -1.

Launchers. Relatively slow projectiles mean that at long range's hitting moving targets. Additional -10 to hit moving targets at extreme range, target gain +10 to dodge if they are able to. This only applies to 'dumb' projectiles, those fired from launchers with built in targeters account ignore this as well as gaining the normal benefits if at least a half action aim is used.

Possibly wrap it into the existing keyword system:

Lead (+/- X): This weapon has an innate advantage or disadvantage when it comes to lead times. Las weapons hit almost instanteneously, whereas the lobbing motion of a mortar takes several seconds to reach a target. Apply X [+/- 10] modifiers to long range shots.

In this case, you need to make sure to hand out the -X with liberal grace, but make sure +X is rarely higher than 1 or 2.

Something like that anyways.

That does indeed, seem to wrap it up in a useful package.

Another thing is the difference in pen between rifles and pistols of the same sort (more wrt SP and Las weapons rather than Bolt tbh). One of the biggest difference with modern firearms is the differences in penetration between a powerful rifle and pistols. Decent body armour will (in theory) stop even the heaviest pistol round but even the smallest assault rifles rounds are basically unstoppable. In the system it seems like they missed it completely, even more obvious when you get hand cannons that DO have pen on them as basic. I would have thought that autoguns and lasguns should have 2-3 points of pen.

Yes but the point of a hand cannon is to put a fist of lead into somebody, and would probably just smash flak armour apart

In the other FFG games, autoguns with AP ammo have a pen of 3. The rocket powered, semi-automatic grenade launcher that mortals fear and demi-gods call boltguns are still only 5. I'd say for the cheap, factory produced versions of Las- and auto- weaponry that random cultists get, the lack of pen works. THey're firing low intensity las beams through poorly crafted lenses and emmiter coils, or low velocity, low calibre rounds that are simply not up to par against the advanced alloys and construction of most 40k armour (even flak armour is probably better than the stuff we build these days - STC ftw.)

I'd recommend checking out the Inquisitor's Handbook for a wider range of las-and auto- weapons of varying quality with varying pen/damage. Using them as a template for different brands, sizes, calibres and design quality (beyone craftsmanship, of course) will probably solve that issue for you.

That a bullet or shot gets through the armor's AP doesn't necessarily mean that it is actually literally making a hole in the armor. It's transferring kinetic enery or heat through the armor to the squishy thing on the other side. Autogun bullets aren't literally shooting through carapace.

professor_kylan said:

Except the cheap stuff is exactly what's issued to rank-and-file Imperial Guardsmen. I mean obviously the Imperium doesn't really give a **** about an individual Guardsman's effectiveness, but it's hard to believe they give them things that intentionally suck so bad against even very-easily-obtained armor that will be fielded by cultists and rebels.

Kshatriya said:

The problem is defining rank-and-file guardsmen. The Guthar-kin from Teros IX that wear the tough Guthar hides of their kinlands who are taken from their homes, handed a poorly pressed lasgun from a bored looking Departmento Munitorium official and given a three day firearms course before being dropped into a battle where millions are being killed every week, probably have weapons that DO such that bad because they are that expendable.

The elite Cadian 122nd, who bear a regimental standard into battle that is actually older than written history on Cadia and bear lasguns that were issues to them with their dogtags at birth, would have slightly better weapons.

That's why I suggest using the Inquisitor's Handbook (if you have access to it, of course) to reperesent the different models you might find around the place. Remember: no bad ideas in brainstorming - just bad people

I actually have the I:HB for DH, it's a good book but in a way it makes it worse, it has a much wider range of pistols than rifles, for SP weapons the average damage of the pistols increases to the point that many pistols were now 1d10+4 pistols where as there was one autogun doing 1d10+4 with lower clip and only 60% of the range.

Now they haven't listed all guns and there could be big old +5 SP guns but maybe they didn't want to do that as starts to run into bolter damaged (although without the tearing trait which helps a lot). Maybe they'd have been better off having rifles having more pen but pistols potentially doing significantly more damage for the very big ones. For Las weapons they actually had the M36 Kantreal, as used by Cadians, which had the standard generic weapon stats and very little improvement unless using a hellgun.

That might mean an increase in the PEN of other weapons too (bolters for instance, if a bolter and bolt pistol have the same pen) and maybe even a moderate increase in armour ratings too.

Next up, Scopes and Marksman. Anybody else think that Perhaps Marksman should have 3 levels (at reduced cost), each reducing the penalties for ranged shots by 10? In doing so low levels could be available to everybody but the highest level could be reserved for specialist sniper characters?

Likewise, Telescopic sights could be graded into three, the highest being so bulky that it imposes a penalty (say -10) on shots that aren't aimed, but perhaps some other benefits such as modifier to called shots and frequently having photovisor effect (depending on model) . Perhaps a +10 scope could even get the benefit to un-aimed shots and be more like a reflex sight. a +20 would be relatively simple telesight