So with our current games we have both the Scourge and Obey the King being used in challenges. Starting with the scourge, if a charcter kneels to defend say a military challenge against a martell player, who then uses scourge to remove the icon does the defending players character no lomnger count as participating in the challenge, or does the scourge's effect (presuming it is not countered) have to be done before combat. If it can be used does the knelt character then no longer count as participating so can stand?

With obey the king does it have to be used before the challenge is initiated, is a character declared as an attacker already count as having knelt so cannot be knelt by the effect, thereby removing him from the challenge? Is a character that also doen't need to kneel for certain challenges that is knelt by the obey the king during the challenge no longer count as participating?

Finally with regards to gold on characters such as the king effect Joffrey that gains gold used for marshalling and the Tale of Champions Red Viper, do these characters lose their gold on them in the taxation phase? And can these characters use the gold to pay for effects, King joffrey being used in marshalling, and the red viper using his gold to pay for refugees for example?

Thanks and sorry if these questions have already been asked and answered before

musket_max said:

Icon removal cannot "undo" someone's choice of attacker or defender. The proper way to use icon removal is to remove their icons before they are declared as attackers or defenders so that they are never participating in the challenge in the first place.

musket_max said:

Again, you cannot "undo" someone's choice with these effects. You have to use them before the choice is made and take to possible choices away. You need to anticipate in this game, not react.

If you are coming from other card games, the thing to remember here is that, with the exception of "save" and "cancel" effects, there are no interrupts in this game. Once something is initiated, it resolves before anyone can initiate something else. There are no "chains" or "last-in-first-out" stacks in this game. You either anticipate it and take the possibility away from your opponent, or you live with it.

musket_max said:

musket_max said:

Definitely welcome to the game! I have a few things to add this. First, if Joffrey's STR is increased by the gold on him and he is standing at Dominance, you do count his STR for dominance. But like ktom said, you wouldn't be able to count the gold seperately like you do with gold remaining in your gold pool.

The other thing to add is that there are "player action" windows through each phase. This is where you would trigger your icon removals (or anything else). An important note is the first player always gets to do his first action before anyone else can trigger anything. Such as playing a card, triggering an effect, ambushing in characters, etc..

Looking at the Challenge Phase framework in the FAQ, if the first player does not have any player actions you can still initiate your own player actions (such as your icon removal) before they initiate challenges. Don't let a player try to rush into their challenges and skip this very important player action window. Technically, they are not supposed to move on to the next part of any framework without all players have declared they have no player actions. At least, that's the way I read into it.