Dear Lord. The OP is really confusing to me. You would think this would be an option when setting up a tourney? Or is it? Or do you specifically have to ask for it?

not sure what you are asking rings, but each month you have the option of signing up for the next month's tournamnet which has a pre-designated pin as the prize. You don;t have any choices other then to host that month's tourney or not.

On an unrelated note, we seemd to have lost a month's tournamnet as this tournament (from conversation I had directly withh FFG paul) was supposed to be March's (and we signed up for in Feburary) and now is going to be April's......

rings said:

For prior months, the "Match" dropdown on the second page for adding a tournament would list the then eligible Hedge Tournament as a choice. Right now it is not doing that. I sent an email to Erik (listed as the contact in the announcement) trying to find out how to properly sign up. EDIT: According to Erik, to sign up for the Hedge Tournaments list the event as an LCG event, and in the Name section, type in what event it will be (i.e. Tourney of the King). Since FFG has our email addresses (it's our OP website login name afterall), I do wish they'd send alerts re OP signup methods/deadlines directly to Night's Watch/store owners so there would be a lower likelihood that OP opportunities were overlooked.

Yeah, because I'm pretty pissed to have missed out on my Lannister pin, since out of the 6 possible pins, it's the only one I really give a flying frak about.

i am really disappointed about how the OP program is handled. looks like many of us are confused about how to sign up tourneys. same for how to enter results.

but whats worse: we didnt get prize suport as we are supposed to.

in my case: i signed up all hedge tourneys till now, but got nothing.

i started a leage and paid for 2 kits, but got nothing. players had to pay a tourney fee with the promise of getting their prize later.

finally: no response to emails.

come on FFG, you can do a better job here!

thorondor said:

Considering that these difficulties and inconsistencies with support of organized play have persisted from slightly before the announcement of the switch to LCG (Dec. 2007), it's hard not to wonder whether this is a question of desire rather than ability. Does FFG really want to support an organized play program for this game? Remember that actions speak louder than words when answering that....

And really, at what point do you just go ahead and say that the actions are proof enough? As much as I love the game and respect the minds that created it, I have my proof.

I'm starting to wonder if the OP for Thrones isn't cursed. Nick-ler was involved with it after Luke left, and he came up with an amazing system -- that didn't survive when he left the company. Now, just one league and two (and a half) Hedge events, Paul isn't invovled in the OP anymore.

I guess I've been fortunate in that I've gotten all my pins and the League kit as desired. I'm still waiting for the Baratheon pins, but only signed up for the event last weekend.

JerusalemJones said:

ditto (different sign up time). i just am not sure why a month got 'skipped'.

ktom said:

No, I think it's pretty obvious they don't. The other option is that they are horribly mismanaged. I suppose you could make an argument that not caring is a form of mismanaging - but, I think they, or at least Christian, just doesn't care.

JerusalemJones said:

What happened to Paul? His name is still listed as the contact on the web page.

LordofBrewtown said:

I can't speak to the level of caring, but i think part fo the problem is that GoT and CoC are lumped in with UFS (which is much larger, not necessarily more cared for) and thus things get confused a little. I've seen people signed up for LCG tournies thinking they were UFS events, and I've also recieved an e-mail sent to me about the most recetn hedge tournamnet afte i made an inquiry baout it with the subject line of "UFS Prize Support". So, it mightor might not be a matter of caring, but there is definatly a matter of not knowing what is what on some employees part. And honestly its to be expected when you don't have an ex-player working the community relations side of the business. I also think we all got very very veyr spoiled by Luke and his efforts on our behalf.

Lars said:

What I want to know is how Stag Lord was able to steal Lars's login?

Arma virumque said:

Probably just slow to update. The announcement about the Hedge Tournament signup being extended listed another contact (Erik).

Lars said:

So why did they take Morgan off of the Thrones OP program and customer service?

I'd buy the "overshadowed by UFS" argument more if the snafus, difficulties and ever-changing personnel didn't pre-date the UFS program. It's very easy to read the same things you cite as the AGoT and CoC programs being "delegated" to the UFS program because no one else wanted to deal with them. It's as possible that it's a token attempt to keep it around when no one in FFG's upper reaches would be terribly sad to see it go as it is to see it as repeated, yet consistent, failure to keep track of the program amid a bigger, more demanding program despite honest intentions to do so.

LetsGoRed said:

Yep, Erik Lind. Whom I've communicated with several times via e-mail with now, about OP support. And he's been absolutely helpful and very quick with his responses. (We're talking 3 or 4 e-mail replies in a single day.) He got my NW application pushed through and approved, venue approved, and forwarded the tournament info along to someone to have it sanctioned ASAP so we could get this months prize support.

So at least one person assigned to the role is doing their job well from my perspective.

I think there could be a lot done to make things more accessible and more organized still. But I don't think its quite the dire situation of doom and despair just yet. :-) Its a tough market for collectible games right now, and lots of them are dropping OP support completely or even entire gaming lines. I'm not saying thats an excuse, but I think we should keep working for what we can with FFG and try to improve the situation in positive ways. At least its there to be worked with.

ktom said:

well again, i don't really know why, but i'd say it was for the same reasons that a lot of people got let go or were moved to other projects after GenCon (in which there was a big reshuffeling of employees from what i've heard).

LGR: i'm blaming it on the new forums, in which i am unable to use firefox's awesome spell check to change typos.

It seemed to me that Morgan got moved into a different aspect of their Organized Play (that being the Regionals and larger events) rather than one line specific OP. It doesn't make sense to have one person in charge of all OP for different game lines. FFG seemed to have alot of overlapping jobs, but with little clear definitions of what aspects belonged to which person.

I think Paul was originally put into ccg/lcg OP, which also included UFS and Kingdom Hearts. I know when Nick was at FFG he had to deal with GoT, KH and CoC, and when UFS was acquired they went through some learning curves to figure out how it would fit into the existing structure. I think eventually the folks responsible for UFS OP became responsible for OP for the other card games lines as well (it seemed that way, when the contact person for GoT ended up being the contact person for UFS). As far as popularity goes, UFS draws far more people to the forums than Thrones does -- even though this is the better game. And FFG did put in alot of work in their promotion of UFS this month, celebrating the 3rd Anniversary of the game, I don't think that excuses our being relegated to a back burner, though.

Now, last weekend was when I registered for the March Hedge event. I got my pins in the mail at the store on either Friday or Saturday, and the pack also came with the April pins, and a note of apology "for the delay," iirc. So the pins are getting out, at least to some of us. I can't speak for all metas, or for FFG. Just report on what my circumstances are.

Comparing FFG's prize support to other gaming companies, when most companies stop caring about a game they just discontinue the support altogether. We're still getting something, and efforts are obviously being made, even if they are failing at times. Perhaps with Erik now being involved FFG is trying to get things back on track -- and we can only hope so. I completely maintain that well run Organized Play program promote games far better than other forms of advertising, and they encourage existing players to stick around. And with the new model for the game, OP for LCGs loses the ability to award exclusive promos for their events, so they are trying to find something that does work in the confines of the LCG environment. House Pins, playing card decks, the art prints that came with the league kit, these are all "swag" that doesn't directly involve the card pool in the LCG environment. It has to be tough to figure out what they can use for prizes when the traditional prize model no longer applies.

I may be disappointed, but I am not yet disheartened.

JerusalemJones said:

Which is a recipe for disaster in and of itself.

JerusalemJones said:

Look, I'm sorry, but we have been saying "they may not do it well, but at least they try" for years now. At what point does repeated failure invalidate this claim? And the comment that "perhaps with Erik now being involved, FFG is trying to get things back on track" would mean a lot more if we hadn't heard the same thing when Paul came on. And when Morgan came on before him. And when Nick came on in the wake of Luke's departure. It seems like part of a pattern and in four months, we'll just be saying "perhaps with Bob now being involved, FFG is trying to get things back on track"

I love the game and the effort FFG puts into it as much as the next guy, but the OP program for this game is consistently, and not just since January, an area where FFG announces big plans and promises that never seem to materialize. It's the "over-promise, under-deliver" thing all over again. I'm glad the process is (mostly) working for Lars and JJ, but they seem to be the only ones.

It's hard to agree that "efforts are obviously being made" when those efforts fall short so often and for so long. I'd almost prefer for FFG to stop saying they will support the game than continuing to do so half-assed. Not being able to count on prize support that is promised is worse than no prize support at all in my book.

JerusalemJones said:

for me that makes it worse! some are getting prize support, some are not. note, that i have already paid for 2 kits, and i got nothing (i am not only speaking about the pins for hedge tourneys, that are sent out for free).

it s not just some nice prizes, that are given away by the compnay for some friendly games, its stuff that has been bought regularly. if i pay for something, i expect to get what i have paid for!

i agree with ktom: stop the whole OP thing. its only a source of frustration and anger!

thorondor said:

Don't get me wrong - I'd prefer that there was an OP program. But it needs to be one people can rely on and that they know where they stand with. Right now, filling out the form for a Hedge Tournament seems to be a crap shoot. So if there was no program, at least people would know where they stand.

oh sure, i am a big fan of an OP program that works!

JerusalemJones said:

Is there a sign up for the April Hedge Tournament already or did they send you those pins on speculation that since you've signed up for the March tournament you'll also be hosting the April one?

As for OP, I think with better implementation they have a nice program mapped out. The League, for me, was very enjoyable and while there was some modest swag, the real prize was the voting on the Storylines. Folks took a keen interest in the Storylines and how others were voting. Frankly, I'd be fine if they kept the AGoT deck of playing cards and art prints and just had the vote. If not for the results tracking poster (which understandably they want to get out so that it hopefully goes up on the game shops' walls to publicize AGoT), League materials could supplied electronically. The Hedge Tournaments are supported by FFG free of charge, so while they should do a better job of sticking to what they announce, I'm more tolerant of delays etc. with regard to them.

And my thinking is instead of sending out tournament materials incrementally, FFG should send out one uber-kit when a Night's Watch/game shop relationship is approved. The kit would have a few copies of the results tracking poster set up to let the NW/shop fill in the season number and dates to coincide with whenever FFG launches a new Storyline League --the rest of the material can be retrieved by the NW via download-- and multiple pins for each house as supply for when FFG says a Hedge Tournament for a given house pin can be held. FFG charges you some reasonable amount they think is necessary to recoup costs. They'd dramatically cut down on shipping burdens and complaints of delays and you'd be covered for several months plus of OP and only need to get the green light from them in the form of an announcement by email or on FFG's site.

LetsGoRed said:

To a point, I agree. I agree that FFG is under no obligation to support Hedge Tournaments - until they announce that they will do so. Once they say "we will support your HT if you fill out this web-form by this date," they lose the option to say "we don't have to provide anything, you know" once that date has come and gone. (Oh, and they kind of have an obligation to make sure the web-form works.)

I can be tolerant with a company not meeting its own promises when it is the exception. But when an organization develops a pattern and a reputation for not sticking to its own promises and announcements, it's harder to be tolerant. Or, more to the point, it's harder to believe the promises and announcements.

Ktom, you're right, FFG should follow through on what it has promised. What I meant but was not explicit/clear about is that I'm more tolerant of the mishaps with the Hedge Tournaments than I am with the Storyline League where people are charged to get the kit. And free or not it doesn't help them to have us run tournaments with the promise to would-be participants of swag and then not have it on hand when the day of the event comes.

A big head scratcher is how there is no (to my knowledge) public access to the schedule of events. As a NW I can log into the OP site and submit tournaments to get them approved. I can also call up a list of all scheduled AGOT tournaments, not just my own, use filters to do a search and with the results see where they are geographically and then click on them to see the details. I don't think there's anyway to see this info right now unless you have a login to the OP site. It's a shame that there isn't a way for players to get to this info.