Hi all, I've played a couple of games of dust warfare now (love it) but I have a few really basic questions. Hopefully someone here can help.

1: Can command squads give orders to themselves? The rules don't seem to say one way or the other as far as I can tell.

2: Do fleeing units get actions? In the order of operations a unit takes during the unit phase, it clearly says the unit makes it's retreat and then gets to declare actions. So wouldn't a fleeing unit just move away, and then just move right back to where it was…essentially skipping it's turn?

1) yes a command squad can give an ordere to itself

2) because moral is done via suppression the unit would only have one action anyway and that action would be to flee

bigsquig said:

evening Squiggly beast.

Right, to calrify your second question - a fleeing unit may only take a single move action towards the closest table edge (see page 47).

To sum up - you activate the unit, roll to remove supression, and if there are more supression tokens on the unit then models in the unit it spends its 1 and only allowed action moving to the table edge.

You are 100% right in how the unit phase turn structure is laid out, it isnt very clear infact until you read page 47.

Hope this helps, have a good one

Unless it has a reaction token then it just sits in place

if there are more supression markers then miniatures after rolling to remove is makes that 6'' move, reaction tokens or not.

caecitas said:

Pg 32, make retreat moves, "Units that are suffering from too much supression will attemp t to retreat."

Pg 47, "If the unit is still retreating after attempting to clear suppression, i takes a Move action ."

Units that have both a Reaction token and any number of Suppression tokens lose both actions in the unit phase. In order for the unit to be retreating i must have Suppression tokens and therefore would only ever be allowed one action, that must be a move action.

Units that are retreating can still make reactions, because as long as they don't have a reaction token they are still allowed to!! fighting retreat!!!

Note: unlike other games, units do not enter a state of "broken" when retreating they simply must make a move action.

if the unit has both a reaction token and a supression token on it, i presume it cannot legally make its 6'' move, yet for that to of happened a unit would of had to recieve a command that was not to regroup, which would allow it to fight.

However it does seem as though units makes a retreat move action (which is listed as one of the phases in the unit phase), but im not sure if that takes up its 1 and only action in its action phase.

I strongly suspect it goes, as it claims on page 47 that retreating limits the squads options, so i think that "retreat move towards table edge" then means the unit my not perform any other actions.

Also to clarify - a retreating unit definately cannot react - reactions cannot be made by units suffering supression.

But a player going second can react to the initiating player's movement, then get shot all to hell by the rest of initiating player's squads, and then starthis own activation with a reaction token and enough suppression to force a retreat. I would think a single 6" retreat move would be compulsory, regardless of having both tokens, but look forward to hearing the official word on this.

if i may creyola - you cannot react if you have a single supression token. Yes its true a unit may react before its shot to all hell, but traditionally a unit already retreating cannot react. Though as you say, if a unit has both, i presume it simply makes that normal retreat move, then can do nothing, even though technically it should get no actions.

This is really the core of the issue. Does the retreat move count as an action, and thus use up the 1 action the squad has? And if a squad has both reaction and supression tokens on it, does it still technically get to make that retreat move?

If yes it can still retreat, then then that retreat move is not an action propper, yet if it cant, does that mean retreating units can become pinned?

I would presume you just allow a unit to make its retreat move and no other actions atall, reguardless of its token status.

caecitas said:

caecitas said:

1- Unless you go first give the unit a command, and the second player shoots up your squad piling on suppression tokens… so it can happen, maybe not every game but it does happen.

2- Why wouldn't it take an action? it clearly states "it takes a move action"

3- If there was something to remove the suppression later they could still react, but you are right, with suppression they wouldn't be able to react until it was gone.

4- It most certainly does not claim that it can no other actions! I state as a fact, that would the unit be able to preform another action it could. How would you think the ability "bad ass" would be affected by this? The unit is off course still bound by the 2 actions per activation in the unit phase, and what token it is currently carrying. Your quote is out of context, as it is explaining the restrictions to the "move action".

You seem to be limiting yourself and your thinking of the game based on what is currently available by special rules/units abilities at the current time, but dont build your basic undersanding of the rules on the assumption that future rules will not need to used in context of proper game mechanics. read and reread the rules. Its a common mistake that is harmless at first but can lead to massive rules arguments latter down the road.

As an example in Utah we have a store that has "its own way of doing things" and if full of people that insist they know the rules, and get regularly embarrassed when outside of said store and a rulebook opens up. I actually feel bad for them because the larger community of players attend tournaments at multiple stores, and they have self segregated themselves to one store. Many of the new players there don't know any better, and we suffer the loss of many good/fun players.

Don't feel like im reprimanding you for anything im just trying to help you keep your mind open to what my be essential tactics and rules caveats to the future. You may also have hit a pet peeve of mine when it comes to rules.

The issue comes down to this - when a unit is retreating it makes a move action.However this move action is done in a seperate step to that of a unit declaring its actions. Its fair to assume that a unit retreating makes its move, and thus that is its used action. But what if a unit has both tokens? Does it indeed work like badass and let the unit take that 6 inch move anyway?

The key word here is "action" when a unit retreats. It takes a move action towards the table edge during the make retreat moves section of the unit phase. This could mean that this action counts as one of the actions the unit may or may not be allowed to make as the number of actions a unit can perform is deduced after rolling to remove supression.

Im saying a retreating unit spends its 1 action making that retreat move, counting as one of the potential 1 or 0 actions it may recieve. As to how badass would interact with this it all comes down to if that retreat movement is infact an action in its own right or not. I would hazard a guess that it is indeed an action, thus the "Minimum of 1" action has been used.

if said move action is infact not counted as using up an action when it comes to declairing actions, a unit potentially could be made to retreat towards an edge, yet still have an action. As i said, the key issue here is "action", and if the retreat move action takes up an action or due to its place in the activation steps does not.

To make this clear before anymore accusations, i am claiming it does take up an action.

it is worth noting there is a solid argument for such an action not counting due to activation steps and where said action falls in the activation step list.

Keep it civil and on topic in future please Azrell.

Um, since the FAQ errata file is just that, a data file, can't it be amended without having to worry about issues like "edit window?" As someone who was involved with paper publishing issues in the past, I assumed that with data files, such issues could be side-stepped, or at least resolved with more ease. My point being that unless there's some difficulty I am not aware of, couldn't the FFG people simply amend the FAQ every week or so to clear up valid issues such as this one?

evening Krag, how do?

That edit window was for the faq thread where i was worried id run out of time to edit my previous post. I had wrongly refered to my list of steps as the unit phase step, not "each units activation" step, so edited to clarify incase people got the wrong end of the stick and thought i was running the game ala 1 step each unit.

Yes indeed FFG can and hopefully will update the faq/erreta regually, they certianly did for deathwatch.

Right now we just need it made clear if that retreat movement counts as an action in the unit phase, and thus means a retreating unit gets no more actions. Also it would be good to clarify if a retreating unit can make said retreat move while having both supression and reaction tokens. Considering how the design of the product is such that units act in ways that represent time rather reasonably/fairly, id not be shocked if they said a unit with both simply cannot even make its retreat action, but again this is all down to if the move action a retreating unit has to make is infact an action or a seperate thing entirely.

could swing either way, bro.

Ah. A simple misinterpretation of whose edit window…

Yes, I do indeed hope FFG stays on top of this, and keeps the errata questions up to date. Warfare is a good game; it's glitchy, but I've grown used to that feature in modern games (I still don't like it, but I'll tolerate it if the game's fun). As I've said before, I don't expect a second edition until next year at best, so keeping the errata updates coming is a good way to keep the game developing, and viola! the second edition should be really killer…