So, the next Deathwatch adventure book is here, and I'm sure we're all anxious to see how it is, right? Well, here's my (not so) brief review.

Bullet Points of the Overarching Plot :

• The Tau are are trying to secretly free an ancient race so that they will join the Greater Good.
• Said ancient beings are actually evil psychic Crab People who are manipulating the Tau into liberating them.
• The PCs uncover this nefarious scheme. One thing leads to another.
• The 3 adventures take place on Spite, Eleusis, and Erioch/Imbra/Watch Station Belarus, respectively.

Adventure 1: Depths of Treachery

Plot:

The PCs travel to Spite at the behest of Lord Ebongrave. According to him, the Tau are up to their old dastardly tricks, and he wants the DW to root them out once and for all. A key aspect of this story is how the PCs choose to handle the unstable Lord Commander'. Spite is is a vertible powder keg waiting to blow, and the marines must tread carefully while uncovering the truth. Ultimately, they do find the Tau (what a twist!) and stop them from opening a gateway to the Crab People prisonr. The story concludes with the PCs discovering that the Tau plan to infiltrate the shrine world Eleusis.

My thoughts: some good ideas here. The adventure explores the spectrum of possibilities regarding Ebongrave, up to and including the overthrow of his government by the players. A number of his subordinates would dearly like to see him replaced, and their cooperation with the PCs may come with some attached strings. Then there is the matter of the "traitors." A group of guardsmen recently laid-down their arms in protest against Ebongrave's draconian tactics. Natually, they were all rounded up as traitors and possible Tau collaborators. These men are portrayed in a sympathetic light, and their story serves as one of the big set piece encounters. The PCs will have to choose which side to support. Other than this, the adventure largely consists of a clue hunt, as the PCs attempt to determine whether the Tau are actually involved. Te final conflict takes place in a huge cave beneath the city, with the PCs engaging in a battle with Tau battlesuits while abseiling down the cavern's wall.

Stay tuned for Part 2!

Sounds interesting, unfortunately I think a couple of my players would hate it. They complained to no end about the "clue hunt" of The Price of Hubris, saying they were doing Inquisitorial acolyte's work and SMs would never be sent to do that kind of deep investigate-y stuff, even Deathwatch marines.

My players are the other way around, Kshatriya. They're all for 'kick in the door and spray the room with hot death', but when I throw a mystery or political intrigue at them, they eat it up. Case in point, two weeks ago I had them running a Space Hulk, hunting archeotech. They were digging it, especially the battle with the Keeper of Secrets and sneaking past an Ork rodeo. Last week, I put them on a mission that had almost no combat. It involved going back to Aurum a year after the events of The Emperor Protects and treating with the Storm Wardens, who had taken the planet as a forward recruiting world. My Storm Warden player was both shocked and overjoyed when I let him talk to his Chapter Master, and they all loved it when I put them through the Highland Games, Space Marine style. Guess which mission they enjoyed the most?

Sorry for derailing the thread slightly. I'm looking forward to your reviews of parts 2 and 3!

Part 2 is the bit in this book I like the most. Lots of Sisters of Battle!

BYE

Part 2!

Adventure 2: Assault on Javar Nil

Plot :

Having thwarted the Tau on Spite, the PCs must now travel to Eleusis to counter the aliens' next nefarious scheme. The first step is to acquire information about the next Javar Ward. However, this is not as simple as it might seem, as the factional politics on the shrineworld create a mire that the kill team must skillfully navigate. Through the course of this adventure, the marines will deal with a cardinal's schemes, aid an inquisitor, and make common cause with a convent of very obstinate Sisters. In order to find the necessary information, the kill team may have to team up with an inquisitor and venture into the subterranean layers of Eleusis and navigate their way through the wreckage of the old Chaotic regime, encountering a nest of Tyranids and a Daemon Prince in the process. The adventure culminates with another dramatic battle, as the forces of the Tay lay siege to the Sister's convent and the Javar Ward within.

My Thoughts:

First, the good. Eleusis is really cool. For those of you not familiar, Eleusis was the center of Ecclesiarchical authority in the old Jercho Sector. When the Fall came, the shrineworld was eventually overtaken by the forces of corruption and subverted into a world of Chaos. With the coming of the Achilus Crusade, the Imperials razed the entire planet before reconsecrating it and beginning the slow process of restoring its former glory. The planet is covered by old wreckage from both the old shrines as well as the architecture of the enemy. The Ecclesiarchy has focused its attempts on a number of key locations, building what are essentially islands of faith amidst the wreckage of corruption. These cities are connected by huge bridges so the faithful need not tread the compromised surface of the planet.

Another bit I like was the structure of the cities themselves. The planetary leaders would like to rebuild Eleusis as it was before the Fall. The problem is, no one is entirely sure what it looked like. This has led to a rather hodgepodge construction process,as different factions build according to their own overblown, long-winded theses.

In addition, we now have rules for more Sisters. Yay! The Seraphim and Retributors now have profiles, and a variation of the stock Sister profile is presented (The Order of Our Martyred Lady). I enojyed the depiction of the Sisters and their attitudes toward the marines, a combination of respect and distrust resulting from the marines' perceived deviancy.

The final battle itself has some real potential. The book gives advice for how to run the siege, presenting a variation of the Mass Combat rules that focuses on specific locations in the convent. Victory or defeat in these areas (using the Turning Point system) ultimately makes the final show-down easier or more difficult for the PCs. The rules are a little confusing. I had to re-read the section a few times before I understood it completely, but it has some good points. The authors suggest using the vehicle rules from RoB to add another layer to the encounter.

Now, the not-so-good. Why are the Tyranids in this adventure? The book blatantly admits a lack of an explanation. Furthermore, their inclusion may lead the PCs completely off-track, focusing on a threat completely unrelated to the story if the GM is not careful. If there was a real tie-in, it might have worked, but as it is, it just sticks out from the rest of the mission

On a similar note: the Daemon Prince. According to the backstory, it is a remnant of the previous regime that now haunts the subterranean levels of the planet. This is fine. My issue is with how the Daemon is included in the adventure. It is presented as a minor adversary, one who inconveniences the Kill-Team by shifting the paths they travel while underground. Actually fighting the daemon is completely optional, and the book even asserts that letting it go is "no great transgression." Personally, I believe that a Daemon Prince should, by its nature, be a Big Deal ™. Just letting one go should be something that sticks in the craw of any Battle Brother. Granted, this could be solved by reducing it to a lesser daemon, but it still seems like a poor choice. Additionally, it offers the same potential as the Tyranids for a sharp derailment of the mission.

Well, that's all for now. Stay tuned for Part 3!

Ok, i just finished reading the last part. The seccond part does seem the most interesting, and Exterminatus seems poorly named and excessively long, its almost a whole campaign in itself. good value for the money i guess. So, HBMC, what are your questions for us gms? BTW, i did notice your name on the masthead page under special thanks. So, special thanks to you, i guess.

The third part really is long isn't it? I mean, we played through the whole section on the world… and then there's the whole next section - basically a 4th part - on the Watch Station. That was a very long day of playing.

My questions relate to a few things:

1. How many named characters are there in Chapter 1, and how many of them actually show up during the first part?
2. How challenging are the fights in part 1?
3. How much damage do the simulcra (SP?) do in the proving ground area of Chapter 3?
4. What about the alien guys? Are they dangerous to a Marine at all?

BYE

Ok, full disclosure: I probably will not run this for my current group. Having read it and thought about it, I know they would be bored with pretty much the first half, up till the sisters of battle part, and the third chapter seems to be heavy railroading to me. I know it's a published adventure and in any adventure some of that is inevitable for story but Exterminatus seems particularly rail-roady. And excessively long, it probably should have been broken into two parts. I'm not sure that storytelling wise the trilogy is so inherently superior to a quadrilogy (if that's even a real thing) that it's necessary to cram so much into that one part. Even moreso when considering the first two parts seem to be farily short. Despite those gripes, I liked it overall. It's an interesting story, one I ordinarilly enjoy, but half my players will like parts of and the other half will be checking their watches after 5 minutes. After that rant, here is what I think, please feel free to point out anything i may have missed or if you disagree.

1. I think I counted 20 named charachters in part 1, but there are some groups i did not count. As far as who really shows up, it seems to be whoever the players want to talk to. If they don't want to visit the camp of 'traitors'. none of them are introduced.

2. I remember looking at the first combats and not really thinking much about them. Obviously not having run it I can't say for sure though.

3. Well, If you let your charachters take all their toys in with them, those lowly Kroot shouldn't have a prayer. Thing is, there isn't a requisition value, or list of objectives so i'm assuming either they only get combat knives, standard issue gear from the front of the core book or I missed something.

4. The Ganathaar, for as much as the text talks them up, really have no offensive capabilities of their own, unless the GM wishes to give them psychic powers in addition to those listed in the appendix. I guess they could try to use dominate to turn a weak minded battle brother against his erstwhile comrades, but without Tau to control, they are literally ineffectual in direct combat.

Hope that was helpful, sorry I can't be more helpful, but I'm kind of limited by my players expectations. It's a solid story for more diverse or roleplay oriented groups. I just happen to have a couple players that have no personality and therefore roleplaying has to be more limited. Let me know if I wasn't clear or right about anything.

I've played through the first chapter and most of the third chapter, and it's interesting to see your viewpoint matching mine - fine story to read, but playing it is a different matter. I liken it to a good book and then playing it to be the movie adaptation of that book; it's not quite the same and it loses something.

BYE

I dont know that it couldnt work for a group that really likes roleplay, or that maybe is bored with the usual space marine way of domination via utter destruction, and might want to try to throw their weight around in a different way, and there are some golden oppertunities for that in tempest rising, but i know what my group likes and its not really this. they might enjoy the sisters of battle part and i might include that in some other way, maybe theres something different in the minaret, or better yet its empty, and then what? i dont know, im rambling now but it does have alot of good stuff if the players are up for it.

My group had more fun with the role-play aspects than the combat aspects. The combats in this adventure, other than whenever you're fighting Crisis Suits/Broadsides, were far too easy.

I do have one question for those with the final book:

What stats (if any) do they give for the Leman Russ?

BYE

Interesting thread. I just picked up the book and haven't read through it yet. Sounds like there is plenty of flavor, even if I'm not planning on using the adventures though. The campaign I'm currently running is focusing on the Tyranids in the Orpheus Salient, specifically with Castobel, so Rising Tempest might be a bit of a sidetrack for me at the moment. Still, I'd be interested in hearing more thoughts from people who have played it.

The modules that do not list a suggested Requisition allotment are very frustrating.

As is the fact that modules don't even seem to track the "Requisition assigned per objective and difficulty" rules of the Core.

It doesn't give Req amounts?

Oh dear…

BYE

The only part I saw that didn't have requisiton was the part in the Hunting Grounds, and I assumed that the SM's would have their normal starting gear and their signature wargear. I agree the requisition doesn't actually seem to be set very consistantly. My complaint is that ther XP isn't set at all, it just says award 500XP per 4 hours of gameplay. Easy fix though, I can just go through the core book to get the XP.

As to the Leman Russ, no. There is no stats for the Leman Russ in this book. There are stats for an Ironclad Dreadnaught with its' pilot, a chaos dreadnaught and a defiler.

No stats for the Leman Russ? Makes me wonder how you'd play that section without any stats for it (we used the Only War stats).

What sort of adversaries do you face during the part on the Iron Warrior world? I know there's the Defiler (one member of our group killed that in one shot with a Lascannon), and having Brother Sadsack (as we called him) along for the ride makes many of the combat encounters a complete formality, so I'm wondering if they've been beefed up a bit to give a challenge.

BYE

I guess if you want a Russ, you have to either make one up, or modify something else from Rites of Battle. Other than the Defiler, there's a chaos dreadnaught and a beefed up Iron Warrior leader dude. I have no idea how difficult the encounters are really, I haven't run any of them, and probably won't any time soon. I remember not being particularly impressed with what the difficulty looked like just gauging from the stats/talents/skills of the adversaries.

Let me ask a question of you, H.B.M.C, since you have a better insight to this than I do; I often find published adventures for Deathwatch and recommendations for enemies around in the books to be pretty easy for my players. Sure they whine and gripe that they have few wounds left, or that they were in crit range, but the way we calculate damage in our groups house rules makes actually dying somewhat unlikley. But, I sometimes get frustrated as a GM because I will lay traps for my players and set up situations that require them to think or to act more cleverly, and usually they will just shoot their way out. They will take all kinds of damage and critical wounds and get their armour all jacked up, but even at only rank 5 they are so powerful that nothing can really contain them. Nothing I can come up with anyway. All this being said, I want them to succeed and I want them to win, so I never take it personally when my best laid plans to challenge them fail, but it's starting to burn me out thinking of cool new ways to hit them only for it to be meaningless because the two assault marines will just jet pack over to the biggest enemies with their storm shields and take turns one shotting them with thunder hammers and the devastator will stand there behind the apothecary and use his heavy bolter to mow down horde after horde after horde. I've looked at their charachters and they are totally legit. Am I doing something wrong, or are they supposed to be that powerful. And if they are supposed to be that powerful, how is it the Imperium of Man hasn't reconqured the galaxy yet, seriously. 1000 of these guys per chapter could destroy absolutely anything.

Lionus said:

H.B.M.C. said:

That's just disappointing.

Thanks for your advice. I feel better now, knowing it's not me doing things wrong. I jumped on the errata stats as soon as they came out, and my players hate me for it, except my assault marine who pretty much steals every show with his thunder hammer. The situation you address with the techmarine intrigues me, because our group decided they don't need a tech marine, and I don't know if they understand how powerful they become. I do have a similar problem with said assault marine though. He has a particularly nice storm shield and so he rarely takes damage. When he does, its' usually pretty extreme, but most of the time, I have 2 other players dodging from cover to cover (or using the apothecary NPC for cover) and this one crazy Black Templar Assault marine jumping on people's heads doing a minimum of i think 26 or 28 damage before rolling any dice. 3 or 4 times a turn. I do try to mix up the hordes, and once they get to below 30, I don't bother rolling damage, just willpower to see how long it takes them to break. I rarely use hordes in magnitudes less than 50, but even then unless there's a couple melee hordes and a ranged horde they rarely present problems. Putting boss creatures with bodyguards helps and makes them more interesting. Also traps, ambushes and tricks like suicide bombers and IED's. One of the most fun tricks I ever played was having a squad of Alpha Legion CSM's ambush the kill team, and when they would ordinarily have been stunned or killed, a meltabomb in their breastplate would explode, causing tons of damage to the player that killed them (in melee anyway). So much for taking prisoners for questioning. Anyway, I appreciate your insight, there was definatley stuff there I had not thought of, and while yes I really do want my players to win, that doesn't mean I want them to take if for granted they will, or that it will be easy. Or, that I don't like to torture them some, even though the whining when they hit crit range gets annoying. Thanks again!!

As I said - Zoanthropes! They're a big wakeup call for Marines who think they're invincible.

And if you want to do something mean to the player with the Storm Shield, put him up against a few enemies with Disarm and take his Storm Shield. He'll get it back at the end of combat no doubt, but make him panic by having a powerful NPC steal it from him. And yikes! TH and SS? That's a dangerous character… we ignore the doubling of strength for the TH, and use the Black Crusade recommended Concussive rules, rather than the RAW from DW.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

Yeah, we couldn't find anything on if the TH is one handed or two handed, except a few pictures where it shows it being held in one hand. I argued that it is so powerful it needs two hands, but couldn't find anything in print to back that up, because with that combination he is utterly ridiculous. And he gets 3 attacks with it. Per turn. No one in my group has BC, so I don't know what those rules are, but that is one thing about the errata stats, is the TH did actually get bigger and that makes it difficult to challenge the group evenly just like you said with the techmarine. We make it work for now though, he does get alot of spotlight in combat, having stolen a big chunck from the devastator. They all say they're having fun though, so that's the most important part. Thanks for the Disarm idea, I will definately try that.

Just read through it. Not impressive but mostly ok. Even though there is no real interaction with the Tau. Which is simply a shame since this was supposed to be a story about the Tau. I was expecting diplomacy and such, but ah well.

Part III however is the best example of how a Deathwatch story should not be told. It's unimaginative, boring and senseless. The narrated passages are a disgrace, the interaction non-existent and basically you just go in and shoot stuff. The setting is a bland remake of Samech in The Emperor Protects, only without all the exciting bits. Then there is the end monster with no agenda or character whatsoever but with a completely superfluous background story that has no impact on the story anyway.

This part of the adventure is useless and a total waste of money. Who the hell wrote this thing?!

Lionus said:

In RT, the humans can use the human-sized Thunder Hammer one-handed. I'd image Astartes can do the same with an Astartes Thunder Hammer.

That deserves real errata.

Also the DW TH is massively OP and there is no way to argue otherwise. DW Concussive is strong enough, but SB x3 is just absurd. And one-handed without Termie armor is the icing on the broken cake.