Page 242, Parry

'If the active character is wielding a melee weapon capable of parrying, he can attempt to thwart an incoming melee attack…'

Which weapons are 'capable of parrying'? A few of the weapons are obviously not suitable or designed to parry with, i.e. Shock glove or Groxwhip.

Under Weapon Special Qualities, there is no quality listed for 'Parry'.

The arguement could be made that a parry attempt could be made with a Omnission Axe handle (Unbalanced mods applied of course) to block a Ork with a Choppa trying to separate your left side from your right.

So, is it the GM's call on the weapons that are 'capable of parrying'?

Is there something in the CRB or other that I'm missing?

Thanks for your input.

I think it's left up the GM.
In general I'd say every weapon is capable of parrying unless stated otherwise or unless they are, well not suited for the task (like whips or weird glove type weapons).

Any melee weapon that is not unweildy is assumed to be capable of parrying.

Errant said:

Flexible weapons cannot parry either.

Not by RAW. As far as a groxwhip being unable to parry a blow, a quick googling turned up this: http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/scarv.html

Errant said:

No books at hand, but doesn't the flexible trait say no parry in the description?

I thought it did…

Flexible weapons cannot be parried. It says nothing about them not being capable of parying. I can imagine some martial artist making all sorts of parying moves with a piece of chain.

Sister Callidia said:

That must be what I am half remembering.

My players prefer to find something with the longest range and the biggest boom so they can avoid geting their fancy clothes dirty.

How about shields? I cannot recall seeing a rule for fending off an attack with a shield. It should be a +20/30 depending on the size of the shield I think.

Fresnel said:

Shields typically have the Defensive weapon quality, which adds +15 to the chance of parrying, but imposes a -10 penalty on attacks.

Thanks. Now I have looked through the section (main rule book) it seems only primitive shields are listed.

If my Explorator wanted to make a non-primitive buckler, I guess he could. However, there is no current mechanic to distinguish a buckler from a tower shield… Is this explored in any current supplement?

Fresnel said:

Off hand, I can't thinnk of any specifics, but a Tower shield would act as cover and not armor.

Cover doesn't apply to melee. Interesting thought though, shouldn't shields count as cover? Logically they should.

A buckler would be cover for the shield arm

A standard shield would be cover for shield arm and chest.

A tower shield would cover legs, shield arm and chest

Table 5-8 in the rulebook: the primitive shield listed gives 2 points of armour to arm and chest. This would presumably be 4 armour if non-primitive "thin metal" under the cover rules. So what about shields made of carapace or cerimite? Surely a Storm Shield is in the Deathwatch book?

We are still left with a buckler and a tower shield giving the same +15 to parry…

Tower shield gives armour, but isn't better to "parry" with. It acts more like cover than a tool for parrying close combat blows (like a buckler). Thus, I wouldn't give tower shields the defensive quality.

I would strongly disagree with this.

In my LARP experience, blocking attacks with a tower shield is not only possible, but very easy. It's a pain to carry, but its very effective, both melee and ranged. The bigger the shield the easier to block in my experience (as both attacker and defender). So clear is the advantage, that the size of shield a character was allowed was a key point of character class/rank.

Fresnel said:

Larp gear is by no means realistically weighted though. You try wielding a steel tower shield while someone rushes you with a stiletto dagger and then tell me you find it just as easy to block as you do with a buckler…

I am not a superfit soldier trained to use the real thing… The police seem to think they are useful - I recall seeing training footage where they use full body shield to subdue a knife wielding madman.

I don't fancy my chances getting passed a 2'x5' shield held by someone trained to use it.

Your arguing that it would be completely useless?

The advantage of using a riot shield in that case is that you can present a united front with your other pepper-gas-spraying buddies to remove the ability for said knives to get in close and do the stabby work.

Ceramite Suppression shields are in Ascension, granting +4 Armour to the chest and arm it's being worn on, and has Defensive.

It has utility beyond that.

Only on the internet will you find people arguing that having a big shield doesn't help against people attacking you with melee weapons…

Fresnel said:

Not saying it shouldn't help against melee weapons, merely that there is a distinct different between using a large heavy object such as a riot or tower shield to act as a 'wall' between you and your attacked, and staying highly mobile with a smaller shield or buckler which you use to actually parry.

Defensive trait (bonus to parry) from small, easy to wield shields.

Cover or armour bonus (damage soak) from large, durable shields.

Simple really.

In RAW a shield gives the defensive bonus to parry and extra armour to arm + other locations depending on size.

In RAW cover only applies to ranged attacks.

You might be interested in this

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_shields.htm

http://m.youtube.com/user/tossetoke?client=mv-google

It appears that the optimal size and shape for one-one melee on foot would be big and round.