But if you didn't know they were genetically enhanced supersoldiers you would think they were just regular dudes.

AluminiumWolf said:

You probably would if you were comparing them to even a heavily muscled normal human, given the extra foot of height and the differences in proportionality between even a human at 7 feet and a Space Marine's differently-proportioned frame. For the record, I actually agree with you somewhat on the Space Wolf scout image - he does seem too human-looking (and proportioned) for a veteran Space Marine, but then, artistic license…

A Space Marine, in my opinion, is going to have a somewhat thick frame of musculature, but will not have the sorts of 'roidy bulging muscles you're so adamant upon. I feel a Space Marine needs to be muscled and framed FOR HIS SIZE, his genetics designed to give him a skeletal system and accompanying musculature that can not only support the increased mass of said Space Marine, but can also provide a flexibility that those insanely-bunched-up-muscles just can't provide.

I always imagine someone akin to Mariusz Pudzianowski, but taller and even perhaps slightly thicker, with a head that doesn't change in size quite as quickly. A thick frame that doesn't (usually) have the sort of bulging muscles that only astringents can really bring out.

Now, COULD a human come relatively close to that size and shape? Possibly. He wouldn't end up nearly as strong, and his still-human bones would have a tougher time supporting that frame. Its the difference between a Human's strength when bulked up to Gorilla levels and a Gorilla - one has the musculature but not the skeletal system for the size, the other naturally has both. Space Marines not only have both, but they're enhanced in ways that nature would have a near-impossible time duplicating - A skeletal system that allows utilization of more concentrated muscle mass. for example.

What should differentiate a Space Marine from a regular gene-enhanced human, in my opinion? A more appropriate-for-their-size frame of skeletal structure and musculature (including proportions, especially comparing the head to the rest of the body). The grace and speed with which a Space Marine can move, fight, and react. The myriad under-the-hood changes to the Space Marine's body chemistry, bones, and muscular structure that work together as a unifying whole in ways that pack all the tremendous strength attributed to Space Marines in as compact and efficient manner possible.

I believe that, like the conceptual utilization of Space Marines, a Space Marine will be built on the principles of Force Multiplication and the concentration of force in pinpoint areas. An Ogryn is sort of the natural, human-esque size analog to a Space Marine, but as is often illustrated and pointed out, the costs of that evolutionary track include a downtick in reactions, in speed, and in dexterity.

The best part of all this? You're free to imagine Space Marines however you please. There are depictions of Space Marines of all sizes, shapes, and 'roid levels. My personal preferences for an efficient frame and musculature do not impose any necessity on you, Wolf, to avoid imagining Space Marines with a comic book Hulk-like frame.

…Actually, some of the recent movie versions of hulk seem pretty dead on to me. Slightly shorter, perhaps, slightly smaller but a bit elongated face. Also, not green. ;P

>>>>>…Actually, some of the recent movie versions of hulk seem pretty dead on to me. Slightly shorter, perhaps, slightly smaller but a bit elongated face. Also, not green. ;P<<<<<

Pretty much my whole approach to Marines comes from watching the new generation of Superhero movies, and thinking, DUDE! Marines could totally do that! And it would explain how a tiny handful of soldiers conquered a galaxy and maintain a reputation as the only thing standing between humanity and destruction!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wrNMPRriwc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjKBa1RU2P4

>>>>>but will not have the sorts of 'roidy bulging muscles you're so adamant upon.<<<<<

But the roidy muscles are a fairly big part of the Warhammer and derivative fantasy aesthetic. Regular dudes have them, so Marines are going to need more of them.

However, the fact I really like the look of roidy muscles cannot be overlooked.

Anyway, part of what I say is that there needs to be an obvious transformation between Human and Marine.

Captain America goes from:-

But Marines are recruited from the hardest bastards in a universe of hard bastards. They start as Conan and have to go up. And not even Conan. The warhammer super exaggerated version of Conan.

Regular dudes in 40k are going to look like Marcus Fenix:-

The kind of deathworld barbarians the Marines recruit from are going to look like this:-

At least their dads are. And Marines need to look impressive standing next to them when they come home to visit.

Problem with that last picture. He already is a space marine.

They have wider rib cages and shoulders so all the extra muscle they develop has a place to go. The guy in your picture does not have a human skeletal structure, if he did his arms would be flung out like a dude stuck half-way through a jumping jack and he'd be unable to lower them. Thats the meaning of "muscle-bound", i.e. you can't move your arms or legs cause your muscles are in the way.

herichimo said:

Oh aye. I'd actually be largely happy if Marines looked like him.

But in his own universe, that guy is just some dude. And the kind of dude Marines recruit from. I don't think it would be massively out of place, if you were to draw a 40k comic set on a death world, to have it star a barbarian who looked like that.

The bodybuilder/roidmonster look is a part of the Warhammer aesthetic and is pretty much established as a functional look for a warrior in setting. So unless you go through and re-illustrate a lot of stuff to tone down the imagery, Marines are going to need to be a bit larger than larger than life.

--

There is, however, no getting around the fact that I just really like massively exaggerated Arnie Conan Barbarians.

The original space marine

All I see is an x on a bit of white paper… I think th link maybe broken.

marines recruit from 12 to 14 year old kids btw, 12 year old kids have more pimple mass than muscles.

I see most of those lumbering muscle hulks as poor crippled souls, after 100m sprint such creature would die from heart attack and spit his lungs out.

Space marine dont need ridiculous high muscle mass, his muscles already are 10 times more effective.

herichimo said:

Just to clarify, I meant this as "in order for this guy to be able to move he'd need to have the kind of skeletal augmentation a space marine gets." Not that I think space marines look particularly like that.

The Original Space Marine

boruta666 said:

That's part of the fluff that I prefer to ignore. I much prefer the original versions of Space Marines where they were veterans of the Imperial Army (Guard) that had discipline problems and were then hypno-indoctrinated and bionically/implant-modified into Space Marines. I think that the current fluff is silly to pretend that you can find awesome fighters in the frame of a 12 y/o boy.

I also don't think a Space Marine needs any more muscle mass than a large human since their muscles can simply be denser and more efficient. The picture of the Wolf Scout shown above is just fine for me.

HappyDaze said:

A fair view, but I've always viewed the recruitment of teens not as them finding expert fighters but rather them finding excellent potential . Kids that are just coming of age and starting to mature, are just getting their head on their shoulders, etc., can be looked at for potential and selected that way.

Though I do agree that some of the trials seem a little over the top for early puberty, I prefer mid to late in my mind's eye

Just for the record, I had this picture of He-man I was trying to put up but it didn`t seem to appear.

How do you put pictures on responses?

I really liked He Man…

Maybe that is most of my problem.

--

(To post images, click on the Insert/Edit Image button on the toolbar above the input box. Paste your image link in to the URL box in the window that appears. Then because this forum software sucks I usually click on the swirly arrow thing next to the padlock in the middle of the window (the 'Reset Size' button). The picture should then appear in the preview window to the right. Then click okay. I assume you actually did that, and it was the link you used that was the problem.)

So I came across these:-

http://nachomon.deviantart.com/gallery/

And there are these:-

http://mikhailsavier.deviantart.com/gallery/31425064

Nifty.

Those Space Marine Concept Art pics are great.