Anyone have some good tips or tricks to making laser grenadiers worth there pts? I loved the look of the unit, but i have of yet to really find them very useful. There range and low infantry dmg makes it hard to stand up to allies longer range, more dice, and quicker movement on equivalent units. they can throw some dice on light walkers but there range means they are most likely in reaction range and will get cut down for doing so.

I like the models i just need to know how people are using them effectively, because mine are currently under performing.

a thread on this particular topic already exists a few pages back i believe.

The general opinion is two fold - One, use them only in sustained fire actions to ensure the maximum chance of taking advantage of ther laser rule of "a second handfull of dice". Two, they are best used defensively, firstly due to the requirement to use sustained actions to get the most out of them, and secondly due to the fact that the laserwurfer in the squad is the only weapon that will realisticly harm medium and above walkers, but is atleast of a better range than the usual laser rifles.

others simply claim them to be costed wrongly - generally speaking ive seen lists with 2 laser grenadiers contained perform well when used to either back up other squads or generally sit in cover. Unfortunately there isnt a great deal more you can do with them.

I've found adding Sigrid to them makes them game winners. First 3 hits get soaked up, and that extra attack die really helps.

Of course, my last game they were OP ridiculous! Rolled 6 dice on an attack vs the Brit Paras in their pretty Berets in Hard Cover. Turns out I didn't need the Sustained attack, as all 6 dice came up hits. 3-6 on the reroll for lasers = 9 hits. His armor 3 roll was 2 successes, still not enough to keep them on the table. I might go a whole year without seeing a 6, 3 laser roll on 6 dice again.

that is some astounding fortune mate.

Ok, so excluding good practice with the unit, either use loaded dice or have outragous luck.

Don't bother, you are better off with Recon Grenadiers.

I play them because I like the way they look but they rarely do anything worth while or even come close to making back their points. They should be 18 points in my opinion due to their range or they need another dice on infantry for their current cost. The only luck I have had with them is running them up behind a light walker and even then you are better off doing the same with Recon Grenadiers. It is too bad because they are such a cool looking unit and their fluff makes them sound elite but they are one of the most lackluster units in the game.

Crazy dice-rolls aside, they've always got their points worth for me when I add Sigrid (including her points). Of course, I almost always have a Sturmpioneire or Recon Grenadier unit in the same list laying down suppression for them. Lasers make excellent mop-up troops.

Shadow4ce said:

This is how I've seen them at their best. Because of their limited range, they tend to not engage early in the game, and you spend a lot of time positioning them. Then, by the time they are in a place to be effective (usually late in the game), they slaughter remaining troops. Blitzkrieg is great with them, because it lets you get them in position and still open up with a sustained attack.

I play laser grenadiers a lot but I have found the games I do not play them I do not miss them. I have many more games where I find myself wishing I had brought recon grenadiers though. They have to have sustained attack to be worth anything and once your opponent knows that it makes them hard to work into range without getting suppression. They seem to be searching for a niche but are just too limited by lack of dice and range. If you could still keep rolling like tactics it might be better but right now their allied equivalent phasers is much better in my opinion.

Trouble is, these Laser Grenadier tactics you could apply to any other squad, and any other squad will be more effective and do a better job

I wouldn't be surprised if the outlook on Laser Grenadiers changes once(if) A4 infantry hits the table.

All i can think of for them right now is that they will be better with later books because they can dmg up to light walkers, but most units have a secondary weapon like grenades that can as well… they needed to ignore armor like phasers or have an extra rule like dmg resistant or fast to make them work vs reg infantry. I can see them going the way tactical marines did in 40k, ok at every thing but not good at anything, resulting in them never getting used.

Not just any other squad does a better job. They just tend to be specilized. With them you are hunting down expensive level 3 & 4 infantry with low wounds count. In the standard axis platoon structure they play this role nicely. Forget that they even have the one big laser and focus on 12" range with the possiblity of bonus hits. Even without Sigrid I've managed to inflict 3 wounds after saves on a heavy infantry squad and that is the way to go. Buy one unit to sit near your other core units and play baby sitter against level 3-4 infantry. If they are shooty level 3 infantry then you can use blitzkrieg or artillary fire to get in close and not provoke a reaction. They are solid unit. I really don't see the difference in cost between the core units until one hits the 300pt level and then it might get you anouther core unit, hero, or walker. So 17-21pts it's all the same really for level 2 troops.

Right now I'm torn between two lists both in the standard platoon structure:

Command Squad

Apes with Markus

Battle grenadiers with the extra missle

the medium walker with artilliary

and an extra regular battle grenadiers.

Comes out to 150pts

OR

Command Squad

Laser Grenadiers

Battle grenadiers, extra missle, with Angela

the Hans

Battle grenadiers reg

extra radio

Either load out is fairly reliable right now with folks playing with points expensive toys.

The difference is that a 17pt recon squad can throw 10 dice at them and throw 5+laser back… at a armor 3 infantry Laser does 5+laser and recons do 8. They only diverge when it comes to armor 4 infantry that is currently not in the game.

A platoon that takes 4 Laser G over recon will spend 16 more pts over taking recon instead and throw less dice at a shorter range than there recon counter parts.

As far as i can tell the only thing that can justify there 21pt or +4 over recon is there ability to hit armor 4 infantry, again that is not currently in the game. If they were costed the same they might be on par with other axis units but there 21pt counter in the allies army, the BBQ squad can beat them on DMG across the board. It almost seems like they forgot to put grenades on axis troops when so many of the armor 2 allies have them. A simple grenade per soldier adds 5 more dice at close range.

Azrell said:

So against level 3 infantry recons throw 8 dice with 8 possible hits. And Lasers throw 5 dice with 10 possible hits and they don't get a reload counter. Yep I see your point there. Recons do have the range advantage though but then they lose the panzerfausts so at 16" they have just 5 dice and the lasers just 1…. I still think the recons had grenades and somebody just cut and pasted the allied template over them and forgot to add the grenades back in. Even 6" grenades would be great.

Seriously though I get your point but if you like the lasers theme then on paper it looks like recon troops are great vs L2 infantry, Lasers are good vs L3-L4 infantry, and battle grenadiers are your basic well balanced unit with the option of becoming decent tank hunters. And of course for everything else there is artillary and intelligent apes that can move up to 24" and attack with their hero…. I wasn't big on the apes at first but after that little gem I've been working on my monkey stomp dance which traggically looks more like the truffle shuffle with a lot of jumping up and down.

How about an untertoten team against Armor 3 infantry? You get 10 dice, and it only costs 19 points. And it never, ever suppresses, and it's fast, and so on.

My point is that if laser troops are only good against vehicles and armor 3 infantry, at 12" range, and then only if they're firing sustained, isn't that a lot of trouble to go through at 21 points per unit when you can get zombies for cheaper and they're nastier, and you can get vehicles to shoot at other vehicles, and do it better? I mean, there aren't going to be very many armies that are composed of armor 3 troops - and if there are, said armies will be rather short on models, won't they? Against armor 2 troops - the norm - laser grenadiers just aren't worth the points, and a unit with a machinegun does so much better, at better range.

Somewhere, between Tactics and Warfare, the zap went out of the lasers.

Gotta agree the Lasers do not have much Zap. When list building and trying to maximize effectiveness, I see I can get as stated Recon Gs or Zombies, which are usually more effective for a cheaper price.

When I take Lasers, I actually prefer the Heavy Grenadiers. But I see them as a reserve piece or "counter" should I say to enemy walkers or Level 3 infantry (Like the Hammers) in my area.

Warboss Krag said:

Guess I've just gotten good at making my enemy come to me. My zombies don't make BBQ squads think twice about shooting at them. My lasers do. I try to position my lasers where anyone trying to shoot them is going to eat some return fire.

Dont get me wrong, I like the zombies, and love the, "**** Dirty Apes!". But neither one creates a risk factor when fired at from 6-12" away by range 16" infantry. If an allied 16" range squad fires at my Laser Grenadiers from 6-12" away, they risk mutual destruction.

I don't discount their weaknesses, but in actual game play, my Lasers & Heavy Lasers have both been very good, and have almost always earned double their points in enemies killed, and I've never lost them in a game that I can recal. Had only one heavy left a couple of times, but never close with my regulars. Sigrid extra hits take credit for some if that. I just try to turn their perceived weakness into strength, and force my enemy to deal with them on their terms (12" and in). Ymmv.

Shadow4ce said:

They have survived as they are so rubbish, your opponant has probably shot up a more worthwhile and dangerous target instead.

Major Mishap said:

Touché. However, my riposte would be, I did mention my LGs have on average killed 2-3x their point value in every game I've used them. So I'd have to say opponents who ignore my LGs are fools.

Hey, if they don't work for your play style, then don't use them. If they didn't work for me, I wouldn't. But they do work, oh so well for me, so I'm going to keep using them until they don't.

The rule of cool over rides their issues for me. I just love the way they look so they will have a place in my army because of it.