Conceptually, I like the vehicle damage table. Superheavy Walkers have DC10, but one that is fresh off the production line (0 damage) should operate at a higher capacity than one that has been on the receiving end of a prolonged bombardment (9 damage). I think the vehicle damage table is an attempt to reflect this.

Where I see issues, or rather conceptual dissonance, is in exactly how lethal the vehicle damage table is. Trivial hits have the potential to do some pretty gruesome things.

At first, this seemed to make sense, and it rewarded keeping your walkers well protected behind cover, promoting clever positioning and careful play. But some potent models ignore cover, like most flamers, and napalm launchers. Again, at first I was 'okay' with this; after all, even though your heavily armored assault vehicle is uncompromised, being bathed in liquid fire and converted into a tiny sun is not healthy for a human crew or all the lovely cordite that they share the interior with. 'Burst' artillery and rockets are often hitting thinner, top armor on a parabolic trajectory, so that makes a reasonable amount of sense as well.

But some scenarios are simply too trivial to reflect the potentially grievous amount of Vehicle Damage Table results that they can rack up. The most transparent example I can think of is a Density 2 antipersonnel minefield versus a Punisher.

Density 2 mines have about a 1:6 chance of removing a single Infantry2 model from the table. No doubt that's a pretty high deterrent for any lightly armored trooper, but the fact remains that a squad marching through a minefield risks decimation, but not obliteration.

So Where's My Beef? I have a squad of d00dz and a Punisher tank, and the only thing separating me from my goal is a Density 2 minefield. My Punisher lowers its dozer blade for an effectively behemothic ARM8, basically untouchable by antipersonnel mines, and heads on through. The mine field rolls exceptionally hot for 2 Hits, a 1:9 chance. My dice aren't terrible, and I get 2 successes out of 8 rolls, negating the hits and any damage. Except Vehicle Damage Table. The antipersonnel minefield that is being plowed under by my superheavy assault walker's dozer blade explodes in incendiary fury, setting my tank alight, and horrific dice (for me) results in the inferno immolating my entire squad of men with the spray/1 from the External Fire result on the VDT.

My wounded Punisher, whose thick armor the mines burst right off of, now takes 1 Damage and stumbles about for the next 9 turns until it burns to death next to the remains of the squad it was escorting, all because it tried to clear a minefield that, mathematically, had almost no chance whatsoever of hurting it.

Now, this is an incredibly unlikely, hyperbolic result (rolling 2/2 hits and then 5/5 hits while I fail 2/2 rolls to save anyone in the squad) for the sole purpose of illustrating why I think the VDT needs some modification. I think the point stands, however, that this should not even be possible . Yes, it's a game, and in a game based on dice "anything" can happen, but this is also a game where it's accepted that some weapons simply cannot damage some armor values; shotguns versus vehicles, for example. To make matters worse, it would be "safer" for my force if I marched the infantry through the minefield first, escorting the heavily armed bulldozer, reducing field density so that at worst I would only lose all my targeting optics (VDT 1 result).

So how do I propose fixing this? Simplest answer is making VDT apply after armor rolls, but have it be cumulative. This generally requires one 'big' hit initially on things like Superheavies in order to 'soften it up' (via Fire, Weapon Damage, Ammo Deonation, or Hull Breach), but hits will become increasingly meaningful as DC ramps up. This simultaneously prevents land mines from setting superheavy walkers alight like Zippos, but it also allows 7 squads of Grenadiers working in concert to eventually cripple/kill superheavies (by cumulatively building up to a catastrophic hull breach).

What do you think? Am I making mountains of molehills, or do you not like the exceptional lethality of a single antipersonnel mine being able to serially blind all the walkers on the table?

correct me if I'm wrong but I think You should have rolled 7 when you did your armor save not just 2 dice?

Yes, a Vehicle 7 vehicle gets 7 die when rolling armor, regardless of the vehicles current DC.

Also, if the vehicle takes no damage from the attack, there is no roll on the Vehicle Damage table. That bit starts, "When a vehicle suffers one or more damage but is not destroyed…" Being the step after "Assign damage" it's reasonable to conclude that if no damage is assigned, the Vehicle Damage table doesn't apply.

I think the confusion comes in because of the bit on page 44 where it says, "Vehicles do not gain Supression markers. Instead, vehicles suffer additional effects on the Vehicle Damage Table," and folks are (reasonably) extrapolating that because any hit to an infantry squad causes suppression, any hit to a vehicle would cause a roll on the VDT.

Vehicle damage table is rolled on the total hits before armor roll, minus cover…if any hits are rolled and you're not in cover, you're rolling on the table.

Questions though for OP…is your squad inside the walker? AFAIK the rulebook says you only resolve the burst attack for overrun actions…don't see how/why you would overrun your dudes anyway. You know you can also spend an action to put the fire out rather than letting it go for 9 more turns…

scott242 said:

The vehicle has to suffer damage b4 rolling on the table, ie lose one or more points of DC (damage capacity). "When a vehicle suffers one or more points of damage, but is not destroyed, the attacking player rolls a number or combat dice on the vehicle damage table…" pg 44

Azrell, that's my take on it as well. The kicker is "and is not destroyed", meaning you've already rolled armor and figured out if the vehicle is damaged. If the vehicle IS damaged, then you roll a number of dice on the Vehicle Damage Table equal to the number of received by the vehicle, minus cover, but including those shrugged off by armor.

An important not is that in this game dmg isnt assigned to a miniature until after the armor roll is taken, so a vehicle can not suffer said dmg until after the armor roll is taken. under step 5 on pg 44.

What number of dice do you roll on the damage table? # of hits or number of damage caused?

original number of hits minus cover