I'm torn on the Ogryn idea. Part of me would love to play an Ogryn, but another part of me is certainly hesitant due mostly to how GW has far more often than not portrayed them as stupid to the point of being nearly handicapped and the comedy relief.

I would like to see a Sniper career and also a Scout career. I'm not sure they need to be the same career with options for branching into one specialty or the other or two seperate careers.

Drake56 said:

Thats the probleam with Crab air no promotion. Must be course you can go on to widen your skills? In the Infantry you may start off as a pravate but then you can move to learn to use the mortars Anti tank misslies gunner recce platoon Helicopter handler inteligance sniper etc I am sure there are many more (Army 87-91 so my info is out of date) of course the most important career in the game must be Band

Hee, hee! Moglwi does have a good point ('Crab air'); the specialty switching I've heard of all comes from modern military, emphasis on 'modern.' And specifically wartime modern military. Dunno how it would work with the Guard…but a big part of the Guard is that it's a galaxy-spanning force, made up of units from disparate worlds and cultures, all tenuously linked by Imperial service and a basic manual. Relatively unsupported, each Guard unit maintains a lot of its own logistical tail, and reinforcements? Unless you're serving on a War World, you have to drum those up yourself. Resupply? Ditto. And so on.

My point is this: I believe the Guard would be a much more nebulous thing, in specific organization, practice, doctrine, personality, and culture, varying from unit to unit, than any number of Space Marines, in particular the Codex Chapters (those following the Codex Astartes).

tuco said:

My biggest issue with Abhumans is they aren't typically in mixed units. they are kept quite separate. Maybe an Ogryn bodyguard here and there. But you don't see a random Ratline sniper in with any given Guard regiment. Let alone Ogryns. They're their own thing.

Dulahan said:

The logistical problems involved in maintaining and supplying mixed troops would keep these rare and avoided.

Then again, with army bureaucracy and clerical errors being what they are, this could be used as adventure hookings: How to keep your Ogryns fed, armed and supplied through it all, battling the inevitable paper errors, red tape and bureaucracy during wartime action. Heck, same could be used for regular troops too. Would even fit in the grimdark dystopia feel.

Though players would probably try to solve this through gun-to-clerks-head intimidation. Which would still fail, when the cargo pallet supposedly containing ogryn-sized combat boots turns out to be filled with SPF-1000 sunblocking lotion. On an ice world. During winter.

IIRC, the germans had a similar problem in Stalingrad: The food supplies failed to reach the troops supplied via planes, due to russian AAA. The one cargo which made it, contained their supply of prophylactics (condoms).

Ive Heard Ogryns mentioned as a possibility, Ive been waiting on the for a while. But what about the Lowly Ratling? Does no one want to be Frodo in 40k? dissapointing.

Also, wasnt there supposed t be a guard speciffic book for DH, what happened to that?

The IG are the largest and most diverse armed force in the Galaxy. The different regiments can make the most extreme SM Chapters looks like re-painted clones. They have certain standards enforced by the Departmento Munitorum, but those would be exceptions to the rule.

So while some Regiments are entirely Abhuman others would Incorporate them within other, say infantry regiments.Especially in the case of Ratlings (for example, theres no end to the local abhuman adaptions), who's specific logistics are much less extreme than Ogryns and tend to act as small units of scouts within larger forces. It also I imagine depends on the populations of the supplying worlds. Any entire Ogryn world would probably farm out full Regiments where as those worlds which are mostly human might have abhumans integrated at a company level.

On top of that even if they are separated by Regiments in battle they may well be fielded entirely in small units farmed out work alongside other Regiments. The IG as played on the TT allows you to field units of tanks alongside units of abhmans and infantry, all of which could be from different Regiments. Likewise the Command units might have representives from all or any of the regiments assembled or even advisors from Regiments (or even other forces) that are further afield in order aid integration.

Of course if you a Command squad an Ogryn is likely to be included as a bodyguard or muscle rather than an advisor, in the same way that they might include heavy or special weapons. In fact Ogryn regiments almost certainly have human commanders anyway.

I think with the right players a sanctioned psyker paired with an Ogryn to act as the insurance against possession by a warp entity. The contrast between powerful body, weak mind and weak body, powerful mind with each side watching the other out of the side of the eyes would be immense fun to play, play alongside, or to GM.

How about a demolitions career?

Hee, hee! Want a specialty troop? Back in the day (well, it might have been waaaay back in the day! As in the Horus Heresy!), the Guard (or at least the Imperial Army) featured Beastmen troops! I've got 'em for the old Epic-scale Space Marine game, and I have an old lead Beastman leader with plasma pistol and chainsword.

Also, around this time (original Rogue Trader), Guard troops could take allied mercenary Ork units! Blood Axes, most likely. I think this was the old timeline, before the Blood Axes were reduced as the leading faction of Orkdom.

I was wondering if there might be some kind of engineer career, to cover close range special weapons, demolitions etc.

As I said most diverse of all. i'm sure most players and IG characters wall be apalled by the idea of working with Orks or massed mutants. But who's to say what's happening byond the range of the Astronomicon.

Be an interesting story to be stuck as the last remants of the Margin crusade, just a few loyal soliders with xeno filth mercenaries (Orks and Kroot), just trying to keep the Imperiums enemies at one anothers throats, and trying not to die in brawls with Xeno's on your own side.

As long as I can roll a Catachan Sniper, I will be happy.

Warboss Krag said:

Plus, such a piece of "legal boiler-plate" doesn't work. In most countries (like the majority of Europe), unless you are working for a company and produce something as part of your employment for said company, you CAN'T sign over your copyright to anyone else - it's legally impossible. You can license something, but that can be revoked unless there is some sort of compensation for you letting them use your ideas.

Basically, if they copy anything posted up by a community member, and don't make an individual license with that person, there is every chance of them being sued.

So no, it's not about lazy lawyers, or thinking your stuff is perfect and the community are idiots - it's all due to real, and important, legal restrictions.

Yes, I see. International copyright laws would be a problem. I was, in the past, only dealing with U.S. laws. Real crying shame, that. Especially since those diverse copyright laws get used so often to allow outright copyright piracy, as well as monopolistic practices…it's a mess. Isn't it fun, trying to deal with a world-wide communications system using essentially 19th-century (or older) legal systems?

Warboss Krag said:

I have that same mini. Mine came packaged with four or five "regular" beastment with swords and maces. I think this would have been mid- to late-1980's.

I'm just going to be happy if there's flame troopers

Dulahan said:

I could see a Abhuman in a mix regiment. as individual squads or even companies. like a Ogryn squad attached to a armour patrol or a ratling sniper with a scout squad. more as a loan than an accutal part of the regiment. to take a leaf out of the US military, we have some airforce personal attached to and agmenting army units.

I believe that arcraft crew, including those in Valkyries, are actually Fleet, as in the Imperial Fleet! Mind you, they'd actually be closer to the old Army Air Force than true Fleet (like Navy corpsmen attached to Marine units), but they'd still technically be Fleet.

Someone over on RPGnet has apparently read the FRPG day book…

Comes with: Female Heavy Gunner, Commando Sort, Techpriest sort, and an Ogryn.

I know a lot of you will be happy for the latter one. But I'm quite unhappy for what it implies for power level and/or balance in general. Something that can go toe to toe with a Space Marine with good odds is not a good PC type when the rest are normal humans if you ask me. Plus how such 'big dumb' races tend to get played by people in my experience is game breaking both in terms of how they act and how powerful they get.

Definitely the first bit of info that truly worries me about the game.

Yeah, I'm hopping its not a real leak. Ogryns? Probably Ratlings too…

Ratlings I'm not as worried about, if only because they're so much less known…

But the Ogryn makes sense since we know it's on the cover. Of course we know a Commissar is too, but that didn't happen. Though could be one of the two bonus characters (IF they bother releasing those, they've been so bad at previews I'm worried if they'll even release the FRPG day PDF!)

I suppose, I'm not a fan of abhumans, Space Frodo… bothers me. As do Ogryns… there is definitely a power level hint here, unless the drawbacks are heavy to level it out. They did have CSMs and Humans in BC but their focus was in different places, which will not fit the same way in OW…

The Russian said:

I think Ratlings are stupid. To be fair. But even if they are included, they still wouldn't be overpowered compared to the rest. They'd fit in the same rough power level.

But Ogryns? This is something that can go toe to toe… unarmored… with a fully power armored Space Marine and have a good chance, if not a great chance. That is not a good thing to me.

Power levels? It implies either an Ascension level of power from the get go, or at minimum Rogue Trader… and still leaves Ogryn overpowered (Sorry, not until Ascension that equality even close… And that only if the Ogryn has 0 talents to a very kitted out level character)… Or a level of balance that will be a nightmare. As a GM, the sort of thing that might threaten an Ogryn is likely to paste any human PCs as an afterthought.

EDIT: HECK, in the first Wordbearers book, one took out a Terminator.

EDIT 2: And the TT game, one is easily a match for a terminator, what with their high strength, toughness, and wounds.

Yeah… It is a bit of a gap. I know I'll not allow them when I GM it…Ratlings too. Not that I know anyone who would want to play one either way.

People love hobbits, that's probably why.

WHY they love them I don't know. But darn it, they do. I blame Lord of the Rings. But I even hated hobbits in those!

I like ratlings. The whole hobbit crossed with a sniper thing really works for me.

Half Bilbo Baggins, half Vasily Zaitsev.