Leafing through a PDF (legal) copy of Dark Heresy and comparing it to Black Crusade I came up with lots of differences, the main one being BC is easier to understand!

Considering DH is FF's best selling, and best supported 40K RPG, is there room and a requirement for the entire rulebook to be rewritten and updated, without changing the core rules (much, so supplements are all still fully functional).

I think there is, and quite a big need at that, how about you?

I don't see why there should not be a second edition of Dark Heresy. They updated a lot of rules and learned from earlier mistakes to make the game better. I am sure that Only War is even more evolved then Black Crusade. The biggest problem I have is the fact that I would have to buy all those sourcebooks as well! Since Blood of the Martyr for example does not fit with a ruleset like BC without throwing away half of the book. That idea gives me shudders.

If they do a second edition I'd like to see them release a either bundle set or even a behemoth compendium volume that factored in both the inquisitor's and radical's handbooks with it.

What about also coming up with a "Beginner Box" (a la D&D/Pathfinder) that has a "cliff notes" players and GM guide, character sheets, dice and basic maps/tokens that's not comprehensive but serves as a good starter kit a reasonable price?

I think there are two possible barriers to a second edition:

The first is simply sales. While DH has been out for a long time (by modern RPG standards), pushing a new edition out now may simply not be viable. The interest may not be there. The existence of the other 40k RPGs may be a hindering factor - people who have moved on to another game may be getting their 40k fix from DW or BC and thus be less likely to purchase a new DH.

The second is the licence. We don't know how long the GW licence was initially for. I have a suspicion that the licence period may soon be up, meaning that FFG will have to decide whether to renew or not (and if yes, how much they are willing to pay for it). With that in mind it would be foolish for them to invest in a new edition now - if they end up not renewing the licence then all that investment would be wasted. So there won't be a new edition until after the licence negotiations.

I'd be happy with a 1.5 Edition - with all of the Errata changes and a few minor tweaks, but not so different as to render the existing supplements obsolete…

Adeptus-B said:

That's exactly what I'd be looking for, a re rewritten (By fantasy flight, not by GW essentially) version of the rules, clearer, easier to understand, better laid out and addressing all of the issues that have cropped up over the last 5 years.

The one thing all the forums mention is that it's a clunky system, a extra spec ail polish would rebuff (ha!) all of the criticisms.

So - how do we make this happen?

Tetsugaku-San said:

Stop buying DH material. Don't buy 40k material. Convince your friends not to buy any either. Post a lot online about how much you'd like another edition. Create fake forum identities to do likewise.

This will help to convinve FFG that the current edition is dead, but that a new edition would be worthwhile.

Or it will convince them that the current edition is dead and that a new edition wouldn't be profitable…

macd21 said:

But we don;t want a new system, just a better written rulebook taking onboard 5 years of errata, FAQs, updates and player complaints! I don;t want to chuck 20 books

Again, again, again I stress this.

Do not do v2 40k rulebooks.

+++FFG, JUST DO A SINGLE UNIVERSAL 40K RPG RULEBOOK ALREADY! +++

Supplements could be used to expand on each separate aspect of the game (any of the available five).

egalor said:

/signed

Tetsugaku-San said:

Same strategy applies. FFG won't release a new edition or a cleaned up 1.5 edition or a single-core edition or whatever as long as they are still making money off the current one.

They really need to do a codified re-pack of the core rules for this system.

Maybe a collector's edition? I know, I know, they usually charge an arm and a leg for the C.E.'s…But I for one would find a way to afford this one if it contained updated errata. And I know a lot of people and collector's would be interested in one, as most of the original Black Industries C.E.'s were bought up in mere minutes. I think a lot of completists out there would definitely snap them up too. I KNOW it would outsell any C.E. out there if they make it beautiful and don't price it TOO high…Just sayin'

egalor said:

This is the only new ruleset I would want more than an Eldar book.

Dulahan said:

Veto.

I'd be very happy with an (official) universal ruleset, but taking the time to think about it and my own conversions I've done in the past to cludge things together, you're looking at either a 450pp book with minimal fluff or around a 100 page doc that has the cross-system mechanics and detailed backgrounds. Black Crusade system fixed a lot of things, however it still has some rough edges when it comes to mixing it into another system, doesn't happen easily.

macd21 said:

That doesn't make any sense, no new stuff would ever be released otherwise. FF know that a new rulebook, for their largest 40K RPG would sell, and would sell well, they don't need to wait for sales of the core rulebook to drop to literally 0.

Tetsugaku-San said:

Disclaimer: I have absolutely zero inside knowledge in this regard. I have never to date worked on any Dark Heresy product beyond my early playtesting work for Black Industries, and I am not privy to any information about Dark Heresy in its current form that is not available to the general public..

Is it the largest, though? Sure, it's been out the longest and it was released first, but beyond those facts, is there any reason to assume that it's more popular than Rogue Trader or Deathwatch or Black Crusade? Especially given that games with extensive arrays of supplements tend to dissuade new players because of the sheer weight of available material that may or may not be necessary.

Beyond that, if it is selling well, and is consistently popular… what is there to gain by risking the alienation of that existing customer base to bring out a second edition that would be less compatible with the piles of material they already own (because no matter how much you argue, "updated and improved rules" does not sit well alongside "perfectly and flawlessly compatible with everything that came before").

A new edition is a big undertaking with many factors and variables to consider. It's a question with no right answer, but rather one determined by a comparison of risk versus reward.

It would be interesting to know the sale figures of the 40k rpg systems. But somehow I doubt that FFG will be forthcoming with those numbers.

But I would love to have a ruleset 1.5, not just an entirely new edition though as I am uninterested in buying all those sourcebooks anew!

I think if I were to hope for a second ed. (Or 1.5) I would hope they would not change everything. If they did the following it would probably suffice and still be workable with most other DH products:

1.) Refine the skills and talents system so that their definitions sync with more current products.

2.) Revise advance section to reflect new definitions and maybe clean it up a bit to reflect logical skill/talent choices at given levels.

3.) Revise gear and equipment section to reflect current versions of equipment listed.

4.) Revise Psyker system to reflect current model. (The conversion already exists in BC but keep it simple for people who do not wish to search through other products.

5.) Convert combat mechanics to current version (BC and soon OW)

This may seem like a lot but I believe the actual page count would be pretty much the same as the original product. The fluff and campaign sections would not need changing and even the intro adventure would only require minor tweeking to reflect the changes in the core system. I believe this would "refresh" this original game line and lead to greater sales. No-1H3_R3 or H.B.M.C maybe you guys could pitch this the next time you talk to FFG?

Tetsugaku-San said:

What N0-1_H3r3 said. Sales don't have to drop to 0, but they do have to drop. They aren't going to release a new edition until the current one is no longer worth their while. A new edition is an expensive and risky undertaking.

That isn't to say that a new edition isn't possible - I'm guessing DH sales aren't anything like they used to be and a new edition could give it a huge boost - but every time you buy a supplement for the current version you're sending FFG a message saying "keep up the good work, I'm happy to continue buying DH material in its current format!!!"

macd21 said:

Which is exactly why I'm here raising the issue and seeing what other players say I own both he original and a paid for PDF and I'd go buy both of them again right now if 1.5 was released.

Do FF staff listen in actively to these forums?

I know I wouldn't want a new edition, as it would use the new BC style rules, which introduced various changes that I don't like.

I havestarted on a project of my own to create my own "perfect" version of the 40k RPG rules, mostly just clarifying various things that were not terribly well phrased and making some (mostly very minor) changes. If they released that version as a 2nd edition then yes, I could go for that…

Tetsugaku-San said:

Not as much as they listen to the distributors ordering supplements of the current edition.

macd21 said:

QFT.