Quick question, is it possible for an Untouchable to become an Inquisitor?

If they can what kind of problems would they face?

I would think that their social problems would prevent them from both becoming and Inquisitor as well as also prevent them from making much progress as one in the long term.

Gurkhal said:

Not every Inquisitor is a golden tongued devil. I can imagine an inquisitor, working in the background of human society, who specializes in hunting rogue psykers and other things that are susceptible to his abilities. Progress in the big "I" is not made through schmoozing yourself up the ranks, but by dealing with problems and threats to humanity, an inquisitorial conclave would accept certain foibles in a member who is a living weapon against enemies others would count as undefeatable.

Arag said:

There is no organization in human culture, I can assume you, where you'll have a chance in hell of making a career when every single one above, below or beside you hates your guts. You can rise while being hated only if your boss appreciates you. When your boss hates you, you will never be anything more than the lowliest clerc.

There is a wide difference between being silver tongued and being a social pariah, and you in the long term you can't hope to build something if you have to physically arm-wrestle every last person you come across.

As I see it the Untouchables are used as useful cannon fodder but never given more due to the hatred that people feel for them. They just arn't suited for leadership or more influential positions due to these reasons.

Gurkhal said:

Sorry, but W40K Lore disagrees with your assumptions. Both Alizebeth Bequin and Ferik Jurgen had relatively normal lives, one in the service of the inquisition and the other almost there too. Besides, the inquisition is the most unorthodox organization in the Imperium, they often react differently than the "human culture." The Untouchables are a rare resource and not cannon fodder, and the premier psyker hunting organization cannot afford to lower itself to feel emotional about people who are able to single handedly remove the enemies powers.

Arag said:

There is a wide difference between using something and elevating it to power and status. The term cannon fodder was probably a poor choice but what I meant to say is that while the Inquisition may make use of the Untouchables as tools they won't make them more than just tools and weapons and while they are used by the Inquisition I'm not sure to what regard these Inquisitors in questions are close to the norm. But since I don't want to be bullheaded I will agree that the Black Library novels have not taken the same stance as I have on this issue and thus it seems like GW is more against me than with me on this topic.

It won't come close to fly in my game though.

Ok, well while I wanted to see what peoples opinions were I have a few of my own on the subject and didn't want to interject before seeing what others thought.

I feel an Untouchable could potentially become an Inquisitor as although people near him will naturally feel un easy in his/her presence or feel varying degrees of dislike of them they don't necessarily have to meet everyone they work for. We could assume that they could potentially rise through the ranks by doing good work whilst abstaining from a lot of the formalities if only to preserve their reputation with others.

'I've never met Mr Kipling before, though he does make some exceedingly good cakes…… even if he was a social Pariah'

I jest, but you could conceivably change that out for Bill Gates and Microsoft, Ghenghis Khan and fighting etc, etc…I've never met them though I heard they have done well for themselves

There are ways around their difficult situation and indeed a resourful individual could utilize all manner of methods to not physically be around people that if he were could potentially harm his 'career' to become an Inquisitor. As Arag said before once you are there it is simply a case of operating from the shadows and 'taking to the field' when needs be.

Dark Heresy is a gothic horror game. Abnett and Mitchell write pulp action fiction. The genres are completely different. The universe is interpreted very differently in both settings to allow specific themes to be possible (such as a prostitute Untouchable; BTW Bequin did not have a normal life, that's one of the first things that the established about the character, then forgotten by Abnett in order to have a tragic love story). They don't mesh.

Says something about Abnett's worldview that his idea of somebody at the bottom rung of society is a call girl.

I agree with precious posters that an untouchable probably never would become an Inquisitor.You cannot inspire people, or intimidate them when they just think of you as a creepy crawler. They would perform very poorly in this role while their supporting role can be so important for the Inquisition! They are just to rare to waste letting them blunder badly in one job instead of utilising them to their fullest potentional in another. I don't see the Inquisition make such a wasteful mistake.

Well I'm not going to say it cannot happen, this is fiction we're talking about after all. However I'm going to chime in on the negative with an analogy to real life. Try rising through the ranks of any organisation where promotion is based on perceived merit and see how far you get when everybody (that is EVERYBODY) finds you repulsive. To make it to senior positions (even lower tier 'senior') you can't just be 'good' you have to be a politician as well and an untouchable just won't have those opportunities.

Read everyones posts and ive read all the same novels by abnett and such…so i can see where those comments are coming from…However..While i see an Untouchable as rising to rank of an Inquisitor as highly unlikely….i dont discount it for a few simple reasons.

1) The pariah gene..makes them in many ways more useful to a ordo hereticus witch hunter specialist Inquisitor as well as ordo malleus ( Nulls are invisible to warp creatures sight - unless you are making use of the more powerful Null rank advancement trait option ( same as psykers get ranks of power..so too nulls could if allowed ) but that would potentially turn them into "black holes" of power against ANY psy weilding/made enemies…

2) The benefits of taking and advancing Interrogation, Intimidation, Inquiry ( for those wanna try to be nice times ) Low+High Gothic ( with extra ranks ) and Ettiquette ( for those court times so as to not overly offend a noble you Didnt mean to ), focus on one or two close and ranged weapon skills particularly ( above the rest ) This standard template could make a very able Inquisitor ( Nobles value allies..especlally the scary kind attached to the big "I" ) Between being able to converse with the lowest scum easily ( the presence alone is good intimidation but if you actually tried to…….coupled with interrogation and inquiry ( to not only know what to ask but how best to ask it to get your answers )

3) The almost universally accepted fear factor involved with BOTH a Null AND Inquisition…put them together for a truly terrifying character

4) Most of the Lord Inquisitors are psykers yes that is established fact…HOWEVER…The Lord Inquisitors are intelligent enough to see the value and incorruptability of a Null holding such a rank……They CANNOT be possessed by the Daemon…Corruption isnt easily gained by a Null ( impossible through warp means ) unlike everyone else…so their position would be much LESS likely to become compromised by the powers of the warp than ANY other…

5) ANY Null that worked their way up through acolyte to throne agent…had the right background ( skills/talents/traits etc… ) could easily become a very valued member of the Inquisition AS an Inquisitor….afterall they would have THE easiest time getting Inquisition business done with minimal loss of materials ( Psykers can get quite destructive to people AND materials….whereas a Nulls special talents lie in nullifying that advantage as well as raw intimidation factor…and when employed with Intimidation+20 for instance…might have the subject of it…needing medicae revival due to coronary..lol..but oh what a reputation that would garner and just think of the spirit of cooperation that could garner from all who became aware of said reputation….The Inquisition operates on Fear Mandate….they encourage it to add to the air of mystery that surrounds them…and there are only 2 true types everyone fears…Psykers…and Nulls…

Here's my view,

An untouchable "null" is unlikely to become an Inquisitor, but having a null become an Inquisitor would make for a great story. Think about it. Having a person with a social stigma become a person of power and consequence is such a common fictional tool that it borders on cliche. Overcoming their weaknesses and using their strengths to their advantage is a tried and true literary method for an underdog.

I don't know of any statistical reason why a Null cannot become an Inquisitor, and I know of no exclusive statement in the books. Sure, it would be harder to manage considering you'd have to boost your fellowship to boost your utility. Sure, a null is more likely to become some other kind of Throne Agent, but I don't see how Inquisitorial Authority is outside their reach. And such an Inquisitor that does not fear the witch, invokes fear and intimidation from those he questions, and by his nature makes others wish to turn away would make a powerful addition to Ordo Hereticus.

Throne of Terra, I'm thinking of trying this on my own.

Realistically it would be exceedingly unlikely to happen, because an Inquisitor is first and foremost a member of an organization whose power is based upon the respect of his peers and other powerful persons/organizations in the Imperium and the loyalty of his underlings. Neither of which an Untouchable is going to have, being hated and despised. Not hated and despised in the way psykers are -- because they re dangerous -- but hated and despised because they are inherently loathsome. The same reason somebody with incredible and incurable body odor is not going to become director of the CIA, no matter how good he is.

But it's a fictional universe, make up some rationalization if you want.

See, I'm going to take an opposite opinion here. I think its incredibly likely that Untouchables could get themselves promoted as an Inquisitor. Hell, if they could get away with it, I'd bet the Inquisition doing everything it can to create entire chapters of Untouchable space marines.

As shown in the books, those who are aware of the Untouchables powers are able to eventually get 'used' to the effect, or eventually learn how to block it out when dealing with the Untouchable in question. The unsettling effect of the Untouchable would make it far easier for such a person to get promoted from the usual inquisition talent sources of Torture and questioning. After all, if your very presence can be used to painlessly torture a psyker, you get a lot more information out of them. And we've seen in all kinds of fluff Inquisitors that were promoted for less.

Throw in the fact they are basically immune to demonic temptation, and can be used to safely transport dangerous relics and similar, and I can certainly see Radical factions throwing their weight behind a loyal member behind their faction who'd be sure to follow their agenda, while also clearly being more sane (to their point of view) then many of their fellow peers from other factions. Radical doesn't always mean illegal after all, and after watching several of your idiot colleagues going insane while tripping off demonic power, or blowing valuable resources to hell, your exceptionally sane loyal and intelligent (he follows your views after all) acolyte who can't do any of that stupidity and in fact makes it less likely to occur surely looks perfect in retrospect.

Good Inquisitorial material is hard to come by after all, and might even be rarer then Untouchables themselves. If they both happen to come together in one person, the organization as a whole is far too pragmatic to waste such talent, just because of a minor downside/negative like that. Especially when your 'ally' accorss the hall might happen to be bearing a weapon your fairly sure just winked at you.

Perhaps we're looking at it in too broad of strokes? Sucal mentioned the "pragmatic" side of the Inquisition. It's true that some Inquisitors are pragmatic, and others that possess different ideas of what is pragmatic. The Inquisition has a shared goal, but Inquisitors have really different philosophies and methods.

Is there a radical branch of the inquisition where an Untouchable is more likely to be utilized to his full potential as an Inquisitor despite his unsettling nature? Are there branches that would deem an Untouchable Inquisitor….well…untouchable?

Istvaanians might utilitze one?

Xanthites would most certainly find great use in them, as an Untouchable could provide incredibly amounts of aide in enslaving the denizens of the Warp and similar. Considering the sheer use of an Untouchable that can not only walk amongst the Daemon, but do so almost completely unharmed or being entrapped by their words and guiles and such. As such an Untouchable undertakes more and more of their workload, coming back with success time after time where others would fail, the faction based around turning the enemies power against them would be incredibly likely to promote someone that is a walking talking breathing example of how it can work.

Especially when the truth about the necrons seeding of the Pariah gene is revealed (its still canon to me **** it).

Libricar would likely find Untouchable Inquistors to be excellent people to conduct investigations into the various different Psyker based organisations, since his Aura of Unease would provide extra menance to the investigation. And of course, the whole dodging the effects of the Navigators third eye, or the traitors attempts to zap them, especially one that was brought up and trained internally.

Originally I was tempted to say Oblationists as well, but then I realised the whole 'nullifying' thing kind of goes against their creed of being damned. Though someone more knowledgable about them could likely argue for it as well.

Phaenoites perhaps? But I suppose they'd be more interested in machines that could replicate the untouchable effect at will, thus having any they come accross cut up to be studied or cut up for parts.

If subtle enough, no problem.

In fact, in a game I've played in, the GM had an Inquisitor who never showed his face publicly, always having a different one of his Storm Trooper ******* pose for the camera and pretend to be him, since he wanted to remain covert, and he was only five feet tall, and not as scary as he could be.

I guess a suitably subtle Null could do the same, for different reasons. He could have an Interrogator or similar be him when needed.

bogi_khaosa said:

Up until Ascension anyway, after that DH goes pretty pulpy.

I don't see how bad interpersonal skills, lack of leadership or intimidating / creepy aura would stop one from rising in ranks. I've seen those people as bosses depressingly often.

But lets not forget the other side of the big I. Internal struggle, politics, alliances, nepotism, building power pyramids, rising up in the ranks by merit or by …other means, the senior and better connected giving boost to their protege and those sharing their ideology.

A reliable, trustworthy ally or subordinate is worth a lot for an Inquisitor, or lord inquisitor. Whom would be more reliable than an untouchable? He is repulsed by those not used to him. So, making new alliances and gaining contacts & connections to other possible patrons would be slim. The blank Inquisitor is in effect tied to his patron, relying on his approval to rise or maintain his status. In return, the patron gets a loyal subordinate, one who is unlikely to fall to chaos, even.

A full inquisitor doesn't need to be liked, popular or loved. His greatest asset is his status and the fear that evokes. He has people to play the good cop, leaving the intimidating horror-monster-cop role to him. If he takes part personally at all. Hey, it worked for Charlie.

Acually, that gives me an idea about an inquisitor who only works through middlewomen, utilizing teams of sororitas for their faith and reliability.

But anyway, I would think that the most limiting factor of blanks in inquisition is their rarity.

But what benefit would it be to have an untouchable inquisitor when he never leaves his office. Seems like a terrible waste of such a rare resource to me.

I think they meant more never leaving his office when it comes to dealing with his fellows.

Though staying around the fortress as a quick anti-radical **** up guard could also be useful

It does as a few people have said take all sorts to be an Inquisitor. However there is one thing they all require and that is actual Inquisitors to vouch form them when they are put forward to become Inquisitors (and for not too many powerful Inquisitors to veeto it). It's very political at that point, it in no way precludes people that aren't personable, they may still get on a certain few close people and get results. But it does make it more difficult, especially seeing as Inquisitors include a much higher proportion of Psykers that other organisations.

Face Eater said:

And… the Inquisition as an organization likes to mentally probe those working for them. Being immune to it will probably add to the uneasiness everyone feels about Nulls - not to mention would-be colleague Inquisitors who happen to Psykers. Is it possible for a Null to become an Inquisitor? Yes. But very very unlikely. Someone isn't promoted in an organization for being a loner. Or for being a tool or weapon. At some point, every Inquisitor needs friends and allies. I suppose the Inquisition would not promote a Null simply for the fact they can be invisible to psychic divination/detection and may become uncontrollable.

Mechanically nothing is stopping an untouchable from being an inquisitor. Socially that depends on your universe.

The real negatives to being an untouchable is the difficulty at exploiting the use of the warp in favor of the imperium, (since you yourself can't use the powers and it's hard for a sanctioned psycher to be effective in your presence)

Other than that it's all subjective and the universe is big enough to encompass any possibility you desire as a gm

Skeletor said:

apart from female Space Marines ..*cough*… *ahem*…. . Anyway yes, it is potentially conceivable though I am asking from a more Inquisitive stand point as opposed to wanting to us one in game. There are some things I wouldn't wish to bring in to games especially as they aren't 'canon' and don't seem to fit stylistically such as the aforementioned 'Space Marines of a female variety' yet a 'Null' Inquisitor' would be something I wouldn't have any problems with.

Something to remember: Nothing and Everything in 40k is canon. Female Space Marines seem to be completely out of the question, but a clever enough writer can fit them in. I've thought about doing just that. I have an idea for a radical inquisitor that is working to adapt the geneseed to Sororitas by using Repentia volunteers as test subjects. (lethal in almost every account)

Female marines are outside the pale, but so are Inquisitors. And their Acolytes.