Within 24 inches, penetrating weapons halve the number of Armor Rolls, rounding up. The Dozer allows an additional Combat Die when rolling for Armor Roll. Which comes first? If one is required to add the additional die for the Dozer modifier to a Punisher for an 8 Armor and then halve the value, then one has only 4 Armor Rolls. If the Penetrating effect occurs first, the Armor Roll becomes 3.5, rounded to 4, and then the additional Dozer modifier increases the Armor Roll to 5. I believe it should be the latter so that the Dozer blade actually has a benefit in all situations or why bother?

I think you're correct and the reason I say that is you have two special abilities going on. You've got the Penetrate and the dozer. I see the Pen modifying the stats on the rulebook/ect., opposed to modifying the dozer blade because I just see the dozerblade being something that then adds to it. I could be wrong though.

While I don't know if it applies to Dust Warfare, most games you standard order of operations:

Multiply Divide add subtract

This is how my group has been playing it.

-jay

That's about where we've been too but with one difference. You do it starting with stats/modifies that affect through out the entire game and then work in like that. Example… In Warhammer 40k the bike of a space marine is toughness 5 only when in certain aspects but when it comes to doubling his toughness he is still a toughness 4 as the bike doesn't count towards his actual toughness in that scenario opposed to some modifiers ie., +1 to any statline that's through out the game no subjective to a specific scenerio.

I don't know if anything of what I said made sense, if not I apologize for it's 2:30 in the morning and I'm exhausted. But I agree with the above comment on the order.

In my games I would play it as adding the dozer bonus after the armour has been halved, ie they get armour 5 to the front.

Yeah, I'd agree with the majority here too - divide first, then add the extra armor roll.

Why is it an issue? With or without the dozen blade modifier, the fireball/punisher player still rolls 4 dice against a penetrator.

If I was to rule it, I would allow the dozer bonus first because the dozer blade is more of a passive 'always on' modifier.

blkdymnd said:

no it would be 4 dice if you applied the bonus before dividing and rounding up, 5 if you apply after … read the OP again.

Yes, divide 7 in half [round up]… then add one die to the roll…

So, 5 dice rolled for armor.

Makes me wonder a bit about Damage Resilient also. With phasers you do not get an armor roll so I have been playing it that you would not get a damage resilient extra dice either which I think still makes sense still but now this thread has me wondering.

Vepr said:

You definitely get the die with damage resilience. It's not considered armor. It's more like the person/zombie him/itself is tougher.

I don't have my book with me but I believe it says you get an extra armor dice roll but if a weapon negates armor do you still get an extra dice for an armor roll? That just seems counter intuitive but if you still get the roll it makes my zombies, flak grenadiers, and Lara happy etc.

Vepr said:

Hmm, now I feel like I need to re-read the rules on this. I would intuitively deny Punisher the extra die for the dozer blade (because it's armor) but still give the extra die roll to damage resilient units (becaues to me that isn't about armor.) But it's hard to say that's the case if they're both worded the exact same way.

CSMason26 said:

This is the way we have been playing it but this thread made me wonder if the extra dice might be rolled after the fact ect.

I don't think you get the die in either case after a second reading of the rules. Thematic reasoning aside, the books says you halve the armor dice rolled /ignore armor. Since Dozerblades and Damage resilience give armor dice, I see no reason that they would be excluded.

Damage resilience states you get 1 additional die during an armour roll… if you don't get an armour roll then how can you roll an additional die…

So far we have played it that way, because it seems most logical to how it's written. The additional doesn't kick in if there isn't at least one to begin with.

Thanks, all, for your comments. The discussion is starting to digress a bit now. I'm happy to continue with the "divide, then add" ruling for the dozer.

Jowimus said:

Yeah. I think it fits for both. We were already playing that you did not get an extra dice for resilience and after some discussion we are going to treat dozer blade the same way so 4 not 5.

Vepr said:

Yeah, after rereading the rules myself, I agree with this as well.

HuronBH said:

Unless your Matt Ward and then you don't