Phi6891 said:

Personally I'd say yes as the Psychic Blade powers says "Once manifested treat the Psychic Blade as a sowrd wielded by the Psyker (though it does not require a free hand) that requires no Melee training to use, but cannot Parry. To strike with the Psychic Blade the telekine uses their Willpower Characteristic rather than Weapon Skill"

On page 194 The Attack says "To make a melee attack with a hand-held weapon you must be engaged with your target. Test Weapon Skill"

Now I read the power, when combined with the second quote, as meaning you simply subsitute WS for WP for the test so it is a test and as such can be re-rolled by spending a Fate Point. That's my opinion on the matter anyway though I'll admit I haven't read the previous thread on the issue mentioned by Darth Smeg and my approach can be idiosyncratic at times, I also recognise that this interpretation could open the power to spectacular levels of abuse.

I don't s'pose you have a link to the thread for a frazzled GM who's just finished a long session please

I'll behonest here, I have it and I have yet to kill anyone in combat with it as of yet. Everyone is always in range combat and our movement is cut down to 2m for everyone 1 inch so moving on the game board is very slow. I did hit an Ork with it last year sometime ago, but my party assassin killed him before I could :,(.

Phi6891 said:

There is that limitation I admit. I'm rather lucky as the psyker in my group is somone who I was worried about in regard to powergaming, based on previous games where I played with him, and so far he's proved all my fears wrong. I think i'll sit down with the player tommorrow and discuss the power with him and flat out state that abilities such as Blademaster, two-weapon wielding, swift attack et al. won't be usable with Psychic Blade and hopefully he'll understand.

Also, and this is egregiously off topic but after reading a few of your posts I'd like your opinion on something…

Is there anything preventing a player from manifesting a psychic power, say Bio Lightning, and having a single attack in the same round? I have the first edition of the corebook and I'm not too sure if this has been errated. I know I know the errata has bene out for ages but I'm only up to chapter 5 in amending my copy!

No you can't manifest Bio Lightning and make another attack. The rules that have been errated as any psychic power count as an attack action now with the exception of Resist Possession minor psychic power.

Phi6891 said:

cheers I'll be rooting thorugh the Errata to drag up that one.

The first paragraph in the Using Psychic Powers section starting on page 161 should include the addition: “Making a Focus Power Action is the psychic quivalent of a Standard Attack Action, and counts as such for purposes of determining what else a psyker can do in a round. Therefore, a psyker who uses a Half Action power cannot make another Half Action Standard Attack on the same round. A Psyker may manifest only one ability per Round with the exception of the Resist Possession power. A Psyker is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability.”

This is pulled from the Dark Heresy Official Errata Version 3.0 Updated 4/23/2009 on page 9.

Getting back to the original thread:

In a game I ran about 2 years ago (Red Cages), I had a Psyker manifest 2 Psychic Blades (2-weapon wielder talented), and then completely miss the point that the area he charged into was slick with blood from a decapitated enemy, from an ally's headshot. He survived, unfortunately.

Later in that campaign, he manifested a Psychic Blade and set off two negative effects: Falling Upwards and Distorted Reflection. This happened near the end, in the area of the Steel Clock and the Domed ceiling. The resulting effect shattered the ceiling and shredded everyone in the area, killing hundreds of 'innocent' bystanders. In the aftermath of that carnage, one of team's assassins went berserk killing him (he was an Oblationist with a Hatred-Psykers talent).

My point: Don't worry about the rules of a Psychic Blade seeming to be OP, as such Psykers who overuse the ability don't tend to live long. Fortunately.

Well, you can't actually manifest 2 blades (the second manifestation would simply replace the first), and Melee training talents like Two Weapon Wielder do not apply to a psychicly manifested blade that is not held with your hands.

I still argue that you can use melee talents with Psychic Blade.

Phi6891 said:

I disagree but it's more from a balance POV, can you imagine a Templar Calixis PC with a force sword and a psychic Blade using all the melee talents *shudders*… however as there's nothing expressly forbidding it it's down to personal taste

Edited as I just realised a player would simply use all the melee talents with the force blade and utilise the Psychic Blade as the off-hand attack. Sorry I'm having a blonde day!

Actually, you can manifest two Psychic Blades per the rules of Sustaining Powers on page 164. But, you cannot attack with both of them (they are not, per say, Melee weapons as you pointed out Darth Smeg), and you cannot parry with them. So, it would be utterly pointless to manifest two Psychic Blades other than for flare/style/show-offness/ostentatious display of power. I had a player want to do this also, a while back. I pretty much stated "It looks scary, but how does it help you?"

Ohh, people replied when I was typing. I slightly agree with you funkwit81, that it is a matter of your POV. For me though, Psychic Powers cannot be combined with Melee Talents. You want two Psychic Blades to attack with, create a power that manifest two of them and allows you to attack with them. That's my opinion though because Psychic Powers and Normal Attacks are two totally separate actions according to the rules. So don't hark on me.

Nameless2all said:

lol no harking here mate. Your point is very valid and I have a very idiosyncratic approach to the rules so you're probably right and I'd never let a player use melee talents with Psychic Blade or any similar power as the power is nasty enough as it is. Oddly enough the psyker in my group hasn't took psychic Blade yet, he went for Catch Projectiles instead.

Unrelated but… would you let Catch Projectiles stop Bolt Shells? The power description says "This power only works against solid projectiles and so energy attacks get through as normal". That to me suggests it would stop them as no mention is made of Explosive attacks and Bolt shells are kinda solid ;-)

I may houserule that it will stop haklf the number of Bolt shells as it would SP shots as Bolt shells keep accelerating after leaving the Bolter so they ahve more force and momentum behind 'em.

funkwit81 said:

No I disagree, just a Templar Calixis with one force sword is all you need to be scary, and the psychic blade at that point is kind of a useless/back up tool when you have a force blade. Do to the fact that you can do more damage with the force blade in one hit then you can with the psychic blade.

Nameless2all said:

If you’re not applying melee talents to your attacks then your right there is no point to manifest two psychic blades.

funkwit81 said:

Catch Projectiles is a great power, but the acceleration of the bolt shouldn’t matter at all. If you stop something from moving in midair with an opposing force then that opposing force either stops the movement of the object or it slows it down but then it still continues moving. Seeing as I’m going with that all projectiles stop moving at the end of the turn and don’t continue moving after that turn they are fired I’m going to have to go with that regardless of the bolt acceleration that it’s fuel is used up and doesn’t continue moving it beyond the turn it was fired. Because if it did then using Catch Projectile wouldn’t matter because on the start of the next turn the bolt would then continue to move and hit whatever was in it’s pathway.

Phi6891 said:

Good point. I was just thinking of the scene in one of the ravenor books where Kys, a powerful telekine, has to seriously concentrate, blood dripping from her nose and everything, to stop just a single bolt shell from blowing her head off and sometimes I get a bit carried away with the dramatic so I'll say it stops bolt shells, grenades, missiles etc. However they may still obviously get caught in the blast if the radius is big enough and they fail the agility test!

Huh….. thought they clarified that in the errata. A quick check of it showed a negative result on this aspect. This is just my opinion, but I would say it does and acts normally. Though they would probably not fall harmlessly to the ground. Just like using catch projectile with grenades. Yea, you stopped it in mid air, but alas it has a 5 sec fuse / contact fuse and still blows up when it hits the ground. Same might go for missiles and tank shells aimed near the character, though IMHO they are way to heavy and large to stop with that power.

Just now imagined a character using Fling with enemies throwing grenades instead of Catch Projectile.

Scenario: Goon #1 and #2 are taking cover behind a wall across the street, while your character is pinned in the ditch near the house you just exited. After a few rounds of shooting you notice that one of the enemy goons is preparing to throw a grenade at you. What do you do?

Player: I delay action and wait.

GM: Okay. Goon #1 throws his grenade at you.

Player: I use Fling when it's 10m near me and toss it back at them. Rolling on Psy Rating and WP both nets success.

GM: Well….. The goon who tossed the grenade suddenly gets hit in his chest by it. Not really understanding what happened he looks down and sees the grenade between his feet. His buddy, who was reloading, looks over at his ally and notices him staring at the ground. Puzzled, he looks down also and then glares back at his buddy yelling "You dropped….!!!!!" And the grenade goes boom.

Player: I hop out of the ditch whistling a merry tune.

EDIT: Alas, I was bamboozled again. I guess I type toooooooooo slow.

Hm….. I wonder if you could use Fling or Push to alter the trajectory of missiles and tank shells……??? Guess that would be a Houserule. And, more to the point, would probably only be beneficial in Only War not DH. Because, I mean, if I had my PC's go up against missile troops and tanks, what kind of game am I playing? Hehehehehehe.

funkwit81 said:

Well I don't know about stopping missiles and grenades though, that is taking some liberties with the wording of Solid Projectiles but if you play it that way then yeah I would say that the explosion of the missiles and grenades radius would hit them. I don't know the mechanics of a bolt ammunition, if it explodes after a certain period of time or if it only explodes after contact and penetration because I would just say the bolt falls harmlessly to the ground.

Nameless2all said:

I say yes as long as you can fling a missile that weights 5kg times your WP bonus, but you would have to hold your action and know that they are shooting a missile at you. Otherwise I would just hold my action and fire a force bolt or force barrage at the missile to detonate it in midair away from you if you can.

Phi6891 said:

Not a bad idea. I like your style Phi6891. To bad I'm the one always GMing……. Come to think on it, I think I've only ever played a character once. Ohh well. Atleast everyone has fun, that's what counts. Going to have to think of ways to implement these concepts incase any players think of these ideas.

Thank you, you what would be fun as well is disarming enemies with the fling power.

Ah, interestingly enough it would seem that FFG agrees with you, Phi, and I stand corrected:

DarthSmeg asked:

Rule Question:
Do combat talents like Two Weapon Wielder, Swift Attack and the like affect Psychic Blade?

Can you dual-wield a normal melee weapon and a Psychic Blade, and attack with them both in a single round?

Can you manifest and sustain 2 Psychic Blades simultaneously, and dual-wield them?

Thank you

Tim Huckelbery [email protected] replied:

Yep! For most intents and purposes, it is wielded just like a regular sword.
Yes, you could do two but the penalties for sustaining powers might make it tough to keep going. You would have to manifest one, then sustain it and manifest another blade.

Also be sure to note the Errata addition making it rather dangerous to the user and his friends as well though!

Hope this helps and thanks for playing!

So there you have it. I am surprised by this, and am not quite sure I will play like this in my campaign, but to those über munchkins out there, go nuts!

Darth Smeg said:

LOLs

Be sure to come back and tell us of your dual-wielding exploits and tall tales of extreme cheese factor