Psychic Blade on page 177 should include the addition: “When rolling a 95-00 while attacking with a Psychic Blade, a stray thought causes the psyker to attack and automatically strike the nearest being within melee range. If there are several targets, the psyker strikes the one that is most signi? cant to his emotional state. If there is no one in range, he automatically strikes himself.”

Hi,

Our group pysker is reading this errata, that as long as he is fighting an enemy, such a pressing concern of not dying will mean that he will never be able to hit himself unless he starts waving the sword around when noone else is there, something that sounds ridicukous as why would you be using a melee power outside of combat ?. Does anyone have the correct/official interpretation of this errata as it is beginning to annoy me that essentially if a psyker roleplays a self hating coward he can essentially count 95-100 as a hit, any enemies or others near him will always be more significant to his emotional state in this case. Just seems to wrong that the only way he could ever possibly hit himself with it is if he is practising with it somewhere outside of combat whereas an eviscerator, which has a similar effect, if you miss to such a degree pays you back for the power it gives you.

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks

James

Additionally does the psychic blade count as a primitive weapon as the description "treat as a sword" would suggest, or rather as a mono weapon as the "one molecule thick" part of the description would suggest. Only asking as this would mean the difference between storm trooper carapace being able to absorb some of the damage and termie armour being the only protection

624 said:

Doesn't really matter as the Psychic Blade has a Penetration of 2x WPB, which is likely to be at lest 10, maybe 12 by the time the Psyker can reliably use this power.

I know its a somewhat moot point but seeing as some in the party are at the point of almost being able to afford power armour it makes a difference to them. That part of the question is really just a clarification though, any thoughts on the first bit ?

I think that Darth Smeg's point is that since the penetration is practically 8, 10 or 12 there is no armour that can stop it.

If it is primitive there is. It currently has ap 10 due to our psykers willpower bonus so that means storm trooper carapace would stop 2pts. Any views on the main thrust of the question however ? I really don't care about the penetration element, it's just a caveat to the main question

In the description of psychic blade it says that it is "imposibly thin, as little as a molecule thick". It also says to treat it as a sword, but I don't think that this refers to its damage potential. Therefore I think that it would be fair to say that it is not primitive.

Regarding the main question, the way we interpret it is that the psycher has to hit the nearest being within range other than the intended target. Therefore he has to hit himself if only the target is in range. Otherwise as you have already pointed out there is no way for the psycher to hit himself.

The "treat as a sword" thing is unfortunate wording, and led to a looong thread some time back about whether you could manifest it twice, then dual wield and use other melee talents like Swift and Lightning attacks.

But remember: you cannot parry with the Psychic blade, nor does it require melee training to use.

It is NOT a sword.

I guess the wording is intended to imply that it's range and application is like a sword, ie, you can't extend it to cut the chandelier hanging from the ceiling, nor can you do precision medical work with it. Basically, you (mentally) wave it about, and whoever stands next to you becomes a shish-kebab.

Thanks for the help guys, we'll just have to convince the players who are reluctant that the RAW as discussed make no sense and need some interpretation for them to work properly, a one molecule thick primitve sword is ridiculous for example. Can't imagine our pysker will be happy though, last time we played he managed two "insta hits" on enemies

Thanks again

I would argue that a stray thought entering the mind of a 'self hating coward' would result in him hitting himself! The person most emotionally significant to that person in terms of 'doing harm' could easily be the self hater. Sub-conciously he hates himself but can't bring himself to do anything about it because he is a coward. Then his subconcious takes control of the blade on a 95-100…

One point I would make to them is that a roll of 95-100 should NEVER be advantageous except under the most unlikely cricumstances. That is in the spirit of the rules if not in any actual letter of the rules.

There are a few hallucination effects that cause you to attack enemies that don't exist. This would result in you hitting yourself.

Other than that, if you make a swing at someone, but they somehow are an illusion or a hologram or don't exist, or they disappear before your attack resolves, you hit yourself.

Our pskyer is too clever to fall for that, he only uses it once people get to him, by that time if someone is popping in and or of view he will track them with his powers and as for a hologram or illusion pretty much the same, he will never be first to swing, someone else will have had their shot have no effect or blade go right through before he risks it. He knows the blade is dangerous so is cautious as to when he uses it, if he isn't certain he has a good chance of hitting he won't conjure it to begin with

Then the backlash of the blade isn't useless, you're psyker is just smart. You shouldn't penalize him for being smart. Perhaps, though, you could get him into a situation where he MUST strike first because if he doesn't, he'll die (the rest of the team is stunned), and then he'll have to start risking it. Trip him up. But don't change the rules of the sword just because he got smart. He's not metagaming, that's something a character really could do.

Darth Smeg said:

Aw Darth Smeg you remembered.

True, being smart is rewarded in the game, but going to such levels of messing with just him in order to get him to do that would be frankly ridiculous and if i was in his shoes id just up and leave due to the obvious attention to try and make his power not work the way he wants to, i wanted rules clarification not how to poison, trick and trip up your players 101.

I have no problem with him being smart, his use of it in such a smart way has alleviated the problem up until now as he isnt using it to dominate every encounter, just 'boss' or mass fights, my problem lies in getting insta hits against targets in one on one combat where clearly that is not how the rules were intended due to his interpretation of the 'crucial to his emotional state' phrase.

If he did however end up in a rare circumstance of swinging it around blindly (he bought a gas mask after the first time we used hallucenogen grenades) then yeh obviously he would hit himself, im not trying to ruin his game by any means, just make it fair on the CC characters in our party, who if they miss they just miss, well not in the case of the eviscerator wielding priest who if he failed similarly would probably be in two pieces.

Phi6891 said:

How could I forget?

as psychic blade is powerful as it is, you can cut through walls, doors, etc. and when you roll a 95-100 on that roll, you strike yourself.

Well, one could argue that, to a "self-hating coward", the person most significant to his emotional state is himself; not only does he have thoughts of "I hate myself so much" flying around his head, but also "Oh God-Emperor, I really don't want to die". Emphasis on himself being the subject of these thoughts. It says "a stray thought"; the human mind is a complex thing, and that stray thought could be of that time he was eating a really tasty piece of cake.

The spirit of the rules is obviously not "rolling a 95-00 is a hit", it's supposed to be detrimental. I'd say that if he really wants to argue that the big bad guy standing in front of him is most significant to his emotional state, then just let it count as a miss. There's no way that rolling a 95-00 should be a good thing. The bad roll represents a lack of focus while wielding an imaginary blade in the heat of combat, and he needs to be punished for it.

When you have your psyker fight an illusion, do you give him a Perception test under Psyniscience to realise his target has no thoughts just like you would give him one to realise his target makes no noise?

1. Psyniscience is a Full Action. It requires a conscious decision to use, unlike Awareness. The check isn't made unless the player says he wants to do it.. 2. Psynscience detects psychic powers and warp disturbances, not thoughts, although there is that detect presence thingie in the Inquisitor's Handbook.

I was exactly referring to the "thingie" from I.H.

It says that it allows to "detect presence or absence of normal creatures" and is to be used instead of an Awareness test, which is a Free Action.

Psyniscience is just another sense, concentrating on it, just like on any other sensory input, has to be done consciously and takes at least a Full Action but when it comes to using to notice something is wrong, it doesn't take a Full Action, just like it wouldn't take a Full Action to notice the sound a cultist creeping behind the P.C. is making.

Hence my question about the hologram, do you give your characters with Psyniscience an opportunity to realise the person they are seeing has no warp signature at all, something as noticeable as someone having two heads?

Geeze, I wouldn't do that. That would cause all kinds of problems in other contexts. The character could easily identify disguised Slaugh, for instance. I would require at least use of a psychic power (even lowly Sense Presence) to do so.

Agénor said:

Yes, or at least I would allow it because it would replace your awareness test, but then it's up to the player to chose to do an Awareness test or the Psyniscience test for the one that gives them a better result.

624 said:

It sounds to me like the player is trying to get a potent power with no drawbacks. The psyker is my group is about to get this power and I've already told him that if he rolls a 96-00, i know the errata says 95-00 but what the heck, he hits either himself or one of his allies, in situations like this I make them roll a d10 and the lowest is the unlucky one, if they're adjacent to the player or the target

So can you use a fate point to re-roll your Willpower characteristic if you roll 95-00? Seeing you are using a characteristic and not your weapon skill?