One of our gaming chums has asked to join our playing group, which is cool - we're all getting older with families and don't often get the chance to play together. Plus our group tends to have a core of 3 regular players and 3 (possibly four now) "drop ins" who turn up as and when - which works very well with the set up we have.

Anyhow - new guy doesn't know too much about WH40K, but he does know Space Marines (I blame these new fangled "video games" all the youngsters seem to be so into these days…) and has sked if his PC could be an Astartes….

The immediate gut reaction was NO! But the more I thought about the less it seemed to be an issue. I figured a Deathwatch Kill Marine *could* work…

Has anyone tried it? I realise that there will initially be a difference in XP (our group is mid 7K-8k, he'd start at the equivalent of 13k) but the marine will advance much slower. Added to that he's a very focused combat character and our RT already "one hits" most adversaries in Close combat (he's designed as a deulist…)

Am I mad to even suggest such a thing?

I'm thinking I may raise the issue with the existing players to make sure they are all on board, but I don't forsee them seeing having a wlking light tank on their side as a problem…..

another possiblity is to build him useing black crusade as perhaps a forsaken template. black crusade marines tend to be a bit lower in starting power. and a lone renegade marine would be far more likely to work long term with a rogue trader crew than a member of the deathwatch.

Librarian said:

To be honest that was my first thought and suggestion to him - essentially a "renegade" marine, but not necesarrily a Chaotic one (i.e. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Renegade_Space_Marine_Chapters_(List )) - I was inspired by Lysander and Clotus from the Bloodquest series (back in the days of Warhammer Monthly comic…) in fact there's a montage sequence in the last book of the quest wheer they serve in a variety of roles as they work their way across the Imperium, one of which is as men-at-arms for a Rogue Trader, so the "fluff" precedent is there.

I suppose my reluctance is that he'll be percieved as a "Chaos Marine" rather than a "renegade" - but I guess that's an issue to resolve with the players perceptions - the characters themselves probabaly don't know enough about Marines to see them as anything other than "Astartes" - We've played it that there's an awareness of the fact that there are Chapters but that most people wouldn't know the unique characteristics of a Blood Angel vs a Dark Angel etc. To the crew and officers of the Dynasty he's a demi-god in ancient relic-like armour, who cares what colour it's painted?

i like the idea and have thought of it myself. only problems i can see is him potentially overshadowing all the other characters in combat, and not really doing anything else in non-combat senarios…

Space Marines are very powerful but won't necessarily break the game, especially if he's only dropping in occassionally. In my game we have an arch-militant specialised in basic weapons carrying a boltgun. Until I changed the righteous fury rules over to d5 on the appropriate crit table he was fully capable of one-shotting fairly major enemies on a regular basis. Plus our RT is a fast-talking con-man trade machine so the arch-militant has best-quality muscle implants and a suit of light power armour. Our games still work.

Some ideas for using your (slightly) beefier astartes PC:

1. You're playing Rogue Trader and he's a marine. There will be a lot of social interaction and business deals going on that he has no interest or capacity for. "Brother X, we're heading out to a local bazaar to ask around and set up some business ventures. You want to come?" "No, I must strip and clean my holy boltgun while reciting prayers to its warrior spirit."

2. Depending what kind of renegade he is (Just got seperated from his chapter? On a special one-man mission? Disagrees on certain Imperial practices?) he will hold a very narrow view as to what is acceptable. Your crew finds an interesting and highly profitable planet/relic/xenos breed: if it isn't fully bathed in the glorious light of the Emporer it's going to need to be purged.

3. These fluff considerations could just be flavour for the character though, there are ways to get him to play nicely with the other children. Renegade does suggest he might be a bit more liberal in his beliefs than standard astartes indoctination allows. It might be the whole reason he's off on his own and needing to pick up jobs with a Rogue Trader instead of raining death on the enemies of mankind with his brothers.

4. He might need to adapt and accept some of the crews' more morally grey endeavours. Bolter ammo doesn't grow on trees and repairing astartes-scale power armour is a very specialised and expensive process. Plus there aren't that many opportunities to hitch a ride from planet to planet, especially if you're a rogue marine. He may just have to adjust his usual standards to work with the only people who can provide what he needs.

These ideas can lead to an interesting dynamic where the crew and the marine don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues but each party offers something useful to the other. And if you go with the special mission/one man strike force hook there are all kinds of potential stories from there. And that can explain what the marine is off doing when he's not with the crew. Or maybe he's pursuing his own agenda alongside their goals and has to recon or possibly get revenge on something they're searching for or working with.

I don't know if you had any plans for a specific chapter, but a Space Wolf would work well. Or go completely the opposite direction and he's an Alpha Legion operative who just shows up to 'help' the crew as part of a large scale scheme that could potentially come back and bite them in the long run.

I read the other posts and I thought about it for a little whil and then thought, why not have him not be a renegade, but a marine from an obscure chapte and have him on a penitent crusade for 100 years for some failing while serving his chapter? Maybe he failed to save the gene seed of a squad of his brothers, or maybe he succumbed temporarily to the tempations of chaos and his momentary lapse caused the death of a chapter hero. He is banned from fighting alongside his chapter and any of thier primogenitor chapter battle brothers so he has been wandering the space lanes without any of his power armour or his holy weapons. This would also help him not to overshadow the others in combat too much.

Just my thoughts

Update: After lengthy discussions with the player we created a "renegade" member of the Angels Sanguine using the Forsaken Achetype from Black Crusade. He's a loyalist but believes that his brothers are "misguided" in their interpretation of the Emperor's will and has decided to "go it alone" to best serve the Master of Mankind.

The player tech-priest and arch-militant found him in self imposed suspended animation within a portion of Ghiliam and twist infested hull they'd picked up as scrap for salvage. It appears that the mutants were worshiping his unconcious form…

The fact that his armour (as per BC) is not fully functional and patched with various bits and pieces adds to the mysterious background and limits his combat effectiveness a little.

All in all no one is quite sure how old he is, how long he was in sus-an, exactly *why* he left his chapter and what his plans are. He's a wild card and so far is making a facinating and positive addition to the campaign…

Nerd King said:

Sounds great

Arkio_Gannys said:

We're going with a similar idea - one of his closest battle brothers fell to service of the Ruinous Powers but he defended his honour to the last. He was blinkered to his lies and only when he was finally, and almost fatally, betrayed did he accept his Brother had fallen into darkness. Ultimately the fallen marine escaped, and blame (rightly) fell upon the shoulders of our Player-marine.

They were, as marines, almost inseperable and his brother's failing has reflected poorly against him, throwing suspicion upon his own loyalty (especially considering how vehemently he defended his friend). He was tried for his complicity in his brother's escape from justice and his own suspected corruption but chose to invoke a Bloodquest - he would leave the Chapter, only to return when he had captured his lost brother and thereby regained his honour in the sight of his commander and Battle Brothers.

His quest has brought him to the Koronus Expanse and he has been hunting here ever since.

A renegade marine slumming with Rogue Traders? Awesome. Our arch-militant just fell, and while the group needs muscle, he wants to do something different. I was thinking I like the "touched by chaos" thing. Declared anathema until he purges the taint of chaos, all kinds of subplots suggest themselves… seductions through the gellar field, the attention of a powerful Chaos Marine… the player's private and ashamed battle against possession, not to mention being hounded by the inquisition. Sounds 'something different' enough for me!

Well teh marine's joined teh crew and the rest of the PCs have "cautiously accepted" him ….basically they are trying not to anger or provoke this combat demi-god whilst plotting how they can best use his status and gifts for profit…

Even though he says he's a loyalist and doesn't appear corrupt they are all convinced *something* is up with him and are playing things very very cautiously…

We had a Kill Marine in the last game which as an NPC was there on a basis of favours, we helped out him with something he needed to do on a mission and later on called in the favour to help us out 'removing' a lot of annoying space elves. (A large chunk of the species in some parts of space was just that little bit closer to extinction after that)

No PF or charm rolls, marines don't care about cash and they're certainly not going to consider you an equal unless you can prove that you can both be trusted and deliver what you say. Having a sneaky 9ft tall killing machine in big armour with a big gun punish the **** out of filthy xenos to the point they turn and run is a rare and priceless thing

My group is running a RT campian with Accension, RT and DW characters, and it works out fine. our DW is a Death Angel Librarian always good in a fight, and it is always intimidating to all others.

Should work fine as long as you apy attention to the XP earning differences.

I really want to play a Relictor tooling around with a RT in the Expanse…

"Oh, an artifact of the infernal powers, dear Lord Trader allow me to safeguard the relic to ensure that it doesnt fall into the wrong hands."

Another viable concept would be a White Scar marine on a solo hunt for a target thought to be within the expanse. The RT would be contracted to transport the marine about the expanse, aiding the hunt once a trail had be found. Obviously the marine would lend his hand to fights when needed.

I like the thought of a Marine masquerading as a hi-grav world human and keeping his Powered Armor and Bolter locked away in his quarters. Using "Regular folks" gear and whatnots to add to the challenge

In the RT game that I run some times we have a grey knight and well basically he negoiates… With a Nemesis Force Sword.

Yes fighting is one sided when it comes to 'mortals' but it also led to me using many interesting things also being used in the game as well. You know the aliens from AvP? Yup the RT got his hands on a egg and decided he could sell it. Long story short the grand cruiser they had was burning and full of aliens with only two people made it out alive (Grey Knight and Ork who woulda guessed?).

My advice is balance the combat. Marines have been known to be diplomats. Even Space Wolves have marines that are used on well wishing missions. Keep it up with the mission updates I look forward to reading them. My Grey Knight player say 'Remeber to break LOTS of skulls, be scary, and steal as much as your freakish shoulders can carry'