In the Dark Heresy game I am involved with, I play a Battle Sister of the Adepta Sororitas.

I am still trying to find the niche in my role playing of her to be a zealous and fanatical warrior of the god-emperor.

(If anyone has some good advice or recommendation for material which will offer role playing of a Battle Sister, please do!)

On a mission where we were sent to investigate a possible Xenos artifact being used on an asteroid prison colony, we came across a young girl alone in the same room with a known daemon possessed psyker.

The daemon possessed psyker was a previous acolyte team member of the other players.

After engaging the daemon rather unsuccessfully with firepower, our Adept mysteriously chanted an askew version of a litany of prayer to somehow bind the daemon in an etheral cage.

Much chaos ensews and we get the Xenos artifact out of the asteroid prison colony and take the young girl with us (a new player).

My Battle Sister suspects the young girl or collaberating or associating with a daemon and is hard pressed to trust her.

The Battle Sister takes the young girl and proposes that she purify herself or she will not live through the next mission (a threat).

The ceremony to purify the young girl is to fast for 24 hours and have her carve the gods-emporer's symbol (the Aquilia) into her chest all the while memorizing the basic litany of prayer which my Battle Sister speaks in the beginning of the fasting period.

If the young girl can do this, my Battle Sister feels comfortable with her purity and would assume responsibility for her well being and teach her to protect herself as well as feel the gaze of the god-emporer upon her no matter where she travels.

My fellow acolytes hear the terrible screams from my quarters as the young girl tries to do as I commanded through the ceremony.

I even brought the light of the god-emporer around us (invoked a Faith Power as an atmospheric element).

One acolyte (An Moritat Assassin) comes in to my quarters interrupting the ceremony accusing me of being a Heretic in torturing this young girl.

I wasn't sure of how my battle Sister should have reacted to such an accusation.

I have read short fan stories of Battle Sisters and they would have reacted quite violently, but that would certainly have made an interesting party fight.

So I ask my peers here on the Dark Heresy forums, is my Battle Sister a Heretic for treating the young girl in such a fashion or does it fit in the world of Warhammer 40k being a zealous and fanatical warrior bride of the god-emporer?

Thanks,

Ashe

No, not a heretic…

This seems to me to be a Role-Playing Error on behalf of both players ->

1) NO-ONE gets away with calling a SOB a heretic, EVER , they kill for far less.

2) I have never heard of anyone needing to carve an aquilla or any other symbol into thier flesh unless they were a cultist or
it was a self inflicted act of extreme martyrdom.

3) Now forcing somekind of tattooing on the girl may be appropriate but purity can be established in a number of ways. aka
Via telepathy… if such a thing isnt possible then I do not see why any of your party should have quarms of killing her.

Human life on an individual level is worthless to the imperium.

I am not sure that your Ritual is accurate but it certainly sounds like something a Sister would do! IMHO; The Moritat would be dead before he could finish his accusation! (An Assassin interupting the Holy work of cleansing the faithful in order to accuse ME of heresy!?!?! I would consider it a failure if he finished the sentence!!)

Kas said:

The ceremony was something I completely made up, but I was hoping to come up with something that sounded like it might fit in with ritual scarring and a proof of faith to cleanse one self if suspected of being corrupted by a daemon.

I had implied through role playing that my Sister of Battle wouold make sure the young girl didnt survive unless I was sure of her "purity" and dedication since I had found her alone with a known daemon possessed psyker and obviously wasn't fighting it or harmed by it.

As for a confrontation with the other team member (Assassin) he did take a punch at my Battle Sister and missed, I punched him back and connected, but no real damage inflicted at all, he punched at me two morw times, but miss both times.

His Assassin now believes it must be the will of the god-emporer that I am blessed since he couldnt connect a unarmed strike

Ashe

Radwraith said:

Advice noted and taken

Like I said before, I made up the ritual as a player, but I hoped it fit in the tone of the 40k universe.

Ashe

The Asgardian said:

Since the Assassin still lives you should join the young child in her "offering to Him on Earth". This will serve two functions: It will show the child that sacrifice and honor are required of ALL servants of the Emperor! Secondly; You will do Penance for your apparent wavering of faith in allowing the Assassin to live! BTW: You made an unarmed attack after a slight on your honor like that?

She would not be considered a heretic (even though it is always a matter of perspective (and time) who is a heretic and who I not) by Ecclesiarchial standards throughout most of the Imperium of Man.

A Battle Sister though would never ever invoke “a faith power” just to bring light as an atmospheric element to some sort of ceremony (and this could indeed be considered heresy). Only in the direst circumstances (i.e. fighting daemonic or highly heretical opponents) would a Battle Sister try to use her “faith powers” to smite thy foe in the name of the almighty God-Emperor.

A Moritat accusing a Battle Sister of heresy…phew…that could get messy; and probably only divine intervention or an Arch-Cardinal personally could get the two off their respective throats. A bare-knuckle fight does not seem the most likely outcome of such a confrontation. Keep in mind not only the narrow mind-set of Moritat respectively Sororitas, but also that an accusation of heresy is not made lightly (as the about only outcome of such an accusation would be death).

This is true, but I'm guessing the players involved didn't really know all this.

Instead of letting the situation drift out of hand and devolve into some intra-party witchhunt, simply explain to the players that this was an error on all parts and agree to never speak of it again. Make sure they understand that they both play some seriously deranged self-righteous psychotics, and that accusations of anything other than total compliance with orthodox doctrine will be met by lethal force.

We've handwaved away worse things in my campaign, and we still have fun

The Asgardian said:

forget the girl…. what's up with this adept? "mysteriously and askew"!? I think you need to look for heresy elsewhere!

I think there are two things at play here.

Firstly, there is the "proper" response by each character if they were real people in that setting. And as already said, both the assassin and the sob are narrow-minded psychopaths so that leaves very little room to wiggle.

The second issue is playablity and that includes party 'tranquility'. Unless properly embedded in your campaign (for example the epic fall by a party member and his subsequent betrayal of the rest of the acolytes) you can never allow intraparty hostility. It ruins the game (see the discussion of commissars and blamming party members). So IMO you made the first (and biggest) mistake by threatening the young girl (which I understand to be another's player character).

Considering your description of how and where you found her, a lot of suspicion seems perfectly warranted by your sob. And should have led to ample role-playing opportunities (muttering about the new member, following her around to catch her in the act, trying to convince the other acolytes she was bad news etc.). But you simply threatened to kill this new character unless she did what you wanted. That is not good role-playing.

The assassin reacted properly I'd say. He saw something he didn't like and accused you of being a 'sick ****'. (I'd wish that all who saw religious characters do unspeakable things to children would speak up but that's a whole other kettle of fish ;-)

Note he didn't try to kill you or even attack you. He just said your behaviour was out of line. Which is IMO the proper way of handling this within the group.

This allows you to respond in a manner which fits your character. You can demand a trial by arms where the assasin gets to chose the contest or weapons. Or perhaps your prime doesn't allow a duel, leaving you to angrily glare at the assasin. Perhaps you will attempt to prove your zeal and righteousness with daring acts in combat? Or whine to your superiors about the other acolytes being mean to you…

In short, role playing rivalry and suspicion is all good. Bullying others or fighting them in-game (beyond a ritual duel) is all bad. YMMV

ranoncles said:

The Moritat Assassin did attack my SoB, but only as unarmed attack of 3 punches in all that didn't connect, hence his personal view now that I am blessed in his eyes.

I certainly agree with you on bullying another player, but I wasn't sure how to react to the way the GM introduced the new character alone in the room with a daemon possessed psyker and not have us react as though the new character was under suspicion.

That is why I would love advice on how a SoB would react within the genre of Dark Heresy and the 40k universe.

Ashe

Skeletor said:

The Adept character is very much dabbling in forbidden texts and interested in possible daemonic pacts, but has kept her extra-acolyte hobbies from our zealous eyes.

I have included her actions in my reports to my superiors, but nothing has come of it yet.

Ashe

Luthor Harkon said:

I understand your view on invoking a Faith Power, but in that case I was trying to have some game system worked out with the GM to somehow bring a HOLY aspect to such an intense ritual and let those around feel the power of the golden throne.

Ashe

The Asgardian said:

Your Moritat didn't have a punch Dagger handly… and he Missed 3 times Tell him to return to Cult for retraining should always have a Blade weapon at hand.

as long as the Players, have this all "worked out" then I see no issue… and IC this could be interest devolpments and yes I would view a New PC with distrust from how u found them.

Now watch that Adept, might need to put that one to HOLY FLAME

The Asgardian said:

I would council against trying to get too much in the role. WH40k is a very dark setting and many of its tropes don't translate well into a role-playing game. A typical Inquisitor wouldn't flinch about killing thousands of innocents to get to a single heretic and expects his acolytes to be of a similar ruthless mindset. Yet many players would balk at that. Its a fine line to walk, both as a GM and as a player between that sense that the end justifies the means and a desire to keep the collateral damage down.

Each group may have their own comfort level and yours may be much more in tune with the former than the latter. In my group, we had some pretty intense discussions about what we were comfortable with as most of us weren't quite willing to play Space Nazi's while another was more than happy to shoot NPC's out of hand. In the end, we reached a happy compromise in which we are pretty ruthless against the bad guys but try to go easy (explained away as keeping a low profile) on innocent bystanders. So in the blackest of black settings, we play a middle brown game ;-)

Now as to a sob, they are pretty hardline religious zealots. That can be difficult to contain within a party with different points of view so in a practical sense, you'd have to tone it down to get along and get the job done. You can justify this by having the higher calling of getting the job done instead of pointing out the failings of your team members at the point of a bolter. That doesn't mean your sob isn't a hardcore zealot anymore. You could easily role-play this dichtomy between what you want to do and can do. Have your sob keep a little black book detailing all your team members failings. Report them to religious authority so they have to spend hours being preached to during downtime. Warn them that the Emperor is watching them. Play up the crazy nun part who is largely out of touch with humanity with their many failings. After all, most people might aspire to being perfect servants of the Emperor but most will fall short. Torching them all is not the answer. The sob must give the proper example for them to follow and admonish them when they falter. Not simply put a bolter round through their head.

In fact, if you are familiar with D&D, think of a paladin. Their job is to inspire the masses, provide an example for them to follow (as best they can), take the fight to evil and die young….

ranoncles said:

Wait what? Don't get into the 40k setting? WTF? The whole *reason* you roleplay in the setting is to dabble in GrimDark and play in a world where the ends justify the means.

I suppose you'd counsel the same advice for Call of Cthulhu, Vampire, or any of the other horror-themed RPGs out there?

I'll back off but seriously, if the setting and the themes of the setting are that disturbing, go play something else. And for heavens sake don't play a D&D paladin when the whole point of the game is to exist in a moral grey area.

Back to the original poster. I'm of two minds on this. On one hand is the "canon" response:

"You heretic you're torturing this girl."

"Heretical scum you're preventing this girl from returning to the path of light and the love of the Emperor" *BLAM BLAM BLAM*

On the other hand, inner-part PC killing tends to be damaging to games, so maybe I'd edit out the "Blam blam blam" part and just put him on your sh*t list. There's no reason why the party has to have a homogenous religious view. In fact, I encourage philosophical fragmentation of my PC party. It leads to discussions that are a joy to sit in on, not just about duty to the emperor, but how that duty should be executed.

Why is everyone so enthralled with proving each other is a heretic? We have giggly pyre-filed threads on this forum for that. Your party needs to work together and I think you might be taking your character too one-dimensionally.

I agree with everything Darth Smeg and Ramoncles have said. Frak the Canon, there are as many valid responses from Sisters of Battle as there are Sisters of Battle because they are still people, so assume all the 'expected' behaviour is indoctrination, and grow a personality for your character (and I strongly suggest it is one that can work with non-Sisters or you are being very selfish). Some Sisters will be more compassionate than others, or more judgemental than others, more forgiving and so on.

Sure you were correct to be suspicious of this new character under the circumstances and nothing says you ave to completely trust her, but expecting her to mutilate herself is going too far, and essentially sends a message that new characters aren't welcome unless you get your say on who they are. Whether that was your intention or not, that was the message you sent and I think the Moritat's reaction was more a 'WTF?!' than truely accusing you of HERE-ESSSS-YYYYY.

Like Darth Smeg said, you need to hand-wave a little. For a start, you've got a SOB handing out with a bunch of scum-bags, not exactly canon. It's a selfish response to say "but we're roleplaying grim dark where there is no forgiveness". Your Inquisitor knows better than you, leave the judgement of who is in the team to them and your party will get along just fine.

Best thing you can do is agree to forget all about it and get on with being a team.

Zakalwe said:

I undertsand your view, but I do notice that many play Dark Heresy to role play in the actual 40k universe and reading many of the novels, it seems that it is a very brutal and unforgiving environment.

Having a party to implode on itself is definitely a game breaker if feelings are hurt in real life, but Dark Heresy almost tends to lend itself to paranoria and betrayal amongst party with corruption and insanity.

Do a lot of people role play Dark Heresy and justifiably leave out many of the harsh elements of the 40k genre?

Ashe

I think I much prefer the GM fiat to the "Touchy feelie" option! 40k IS supposed to be dark and unforgivingly harsh. This doesn't mean your characters have to be "Space Nazi's" (Eisenhorn and Ravenor certainly weren't!) but your character should reflect that reality. There were several points where the GM could have prevented this group from imploding (Aside from not putting the "new" character in that situation to begin with!). If I were to Gm this situation as written I might have said: " In what appears to be an amazing display of grit and courage, the young girl is able to complete the ritual with you with nary more than a few whimpers! Surely the Emperor meant you to find her and as surely you believe she is pure in her devotion to him on Earth!" While this is certainly a rather large case of GM Fiat it also would have prevented the whole interparty conflict (Which I also abhor) completely. It also would have served as a "drama point" to reinforce the dark nature of the setting! After all. No group of Acolytes with any sense is going to allow a potentially possessed or demonic "gift" (Except maybe your adept) to just "drop in their lap! I also would have rewarded the new player AND the Sister for excellent role-playing in a tough situation! Probably exp. for the Sister and a Fate fpoint for the "New girl".

Radwraith said:

There is a whole universe of difference between middle brown and touchy feelie. :-)

And never having been inappropriately touched is no exuse…

But seriously, I think the GM in this game dropped the ball on this one. Interparty hostility is just a big no-no and should have been nipped in the bud. Starting with a player bullying a new player. Sure, the new acolyte arrived under suspicious circumstances but another player should never be allowed to enforce his will on a new player.

As to what is good role-playing in 40k, that depends. Yes, its grimdark but the DM should be the one enforcing that by his portrayal of the setting and the events he drops on the players. The players are low-level acolytes and will soon learn there is always a bigger bat if they start swinging their's around 'cause its grimdark and they can get away with that, right?

In this particular case, a sob has a narrow view on the Imperial Creed and how it should be enacted by citizens. That's part of their make-up. And that would work fine in a entire party of sob's. But in a party filled with other careers, that is no longer feasible. It creates discord because the others likely have a different make-up. Which means the sob has to tone it down in the interest of the party (and the mission). Which means the sob has to be played as someone with a more pragmatic view (which leads to role-play opportunities with her more conservative fellow sob's who might wonder what happened tothe sob they know and love or question this new attitude) or as someone who is tolerating (barely perhaps) her party members but has grave doubts about their purity. Which also offers great role-playing opportunities.

In short, my view is that as a PC, you are expected to be more (both in abilities and open mindedness) than a typical NPC with the same career would be. And that enforced difference with the archtype offers great roleplaying potential.

Well, technically Sister's reaction on the whole situation was a testament of politeness. She did not shoot the girl out of hand, as the 99% of her zealous colleagues would have done, and she offered a rather humane ritual of cleansing. Mental interrogation is a much more painful and terrifying experience, the one that leaves your character with a ton of Insanity points and maybe even with a happy roll on the "Sanctioning Side Effects" table.

And if the group of acolytes is ready to accept into their ranks a new member who just "happened to be" in the same room with a possessed psyker… well, that a whole new level of radicalism and I really applaud they courage. Also, ritual scarification is one of the viable options for the pious and is completely alright for the Sister of Battle. Most of the Sisters are content with only a single tatoo on their cheeks, that's true, but remember the Sister recruited into the Inquisition is alone, far away from her comrades-in-arms. And as the holy zeal goes, isolation bring out the worst in fanatic, as she has no one to tell her to stop, and so just keep pushing the standards of her piety higher and further… until they are so perverted they become something dark and ugly. Just check the history books: even the (in)famous Spanish Inqusition started as something good and with the best of intentions in mind.

By the way, this little "incident" gives you a perfect opportunity to reshape the mind of the SoB in question. IMHO, that is

Depressed by her failure (to cleanse the girl) and the lack of faith of her new team, SoB delves into a period of religious frenzy, punishing her own body to expunge the weakness from her soul. She must probably start with cutting the image of Holy Aquila on her chest (ask your GM for a Flagellant talent if you don't have it yet). Then, as the days pass and the girl and her heretical protector and the adept who - if we think about it - saved the little witchling in the first place live on, SoB's mood darkens. She knows that everything that happens is the Emperor's Will, and if those heretics yet live… well, she can't condemn the Emperor as a heretic, so she begins to doubt herself. Doubts lead to weakness, and being a fanatic she can expunge the weakness only in fire and pain. And so her days are filled with killing the "heretics" (and seeking desperately for someone to kill to drawn her own doubts in blood, she begins to see heretics just about everywhere) and her nights - with punishing her body even further for the failures of the day.

At the end of this seemingly self-destructive road your SoB will probably seek out spiritual guidance from some holy father (work out a Contact talent with your GM), and at this point you'll have three options (apart from putting a bullet in your character's head):

1. Make the "father" genuinely holy. He will explain the SoB why and how she was wrong and will direct her on the Road of Penance, so that she can redeem herself. Depending on your character's mindset, I would suggest taking either Sister Repentia or Sister Hospitallier career twists.

2. Make the "father" an ultra-puritan. In this case he will probably lead SoB to greater heights of religious extremism, shaping her into a mindless weapon of faith. Check out the Blood of Martyrs and Daemon Hunter books. There are a lot of options for militant puritans there (a Fate-Eater elite advance, for example).

3. If you're more into Dark & Ugly aspect of the setting, make the "father" an apostate. He will undoubtedly twist SoB's already radical beliefs to his own ends, leading your character down the Path of Damnation. To begin with, ask GM for a "Denounced and Condemned" background package from Radical's handbook, then look where it would take you. I would suggest looking at the Warp Dabbler package (as the SoB struggles to understand just what is wrong with the galaxy around her and how she - the One True Believer - can make it right).

The Asgardian said:

Well, our groups PCs indeed kill and torture (even "innocents") to achieve their goals, but it is mostly sort of restricted and they never do it for fun or commit greater genocides. The killing of helpless or "innocents" is mostly done by the groups Psyker with the Jaded talent. The others indeed gain Insanity points for "unjustified" killings in cold blood, even though it might not be fitting with the grim dark background of 40K and especially the Inquisition.

Regarding your Sister not kiling the Moritat out of hand after being accused of heresy, it might be explained through the fact that she thinks it might be indeed heresy to kill an Acolyte of an Inquisitor (who is in fact the right hand of the most holy God-Emperor). Furthermore, one always has to keep in mind that those taken as acolytes by Inquisitors often tend to be sort of freethinkers by 40K-standards and not as narrow minded as most citizens of the Imperium. This might be especially true for Sisters of Battle. I could imagine most inquistors would take up a Battle Sister in his retinue only if he assumes she can think and act a little out of the (Sororitas-)box. My groups Guardsman was chosen as Acolyte by our Inqusitor for that very reason (i.e. blasting an Ork idol with his grenades instead of charging headlong against the Orks as ordered by the officer/Commissar). In my vision Acolytes often tend to be freethinkers to the degree that they are almost similiar to people in the western hemisphere of our own world today (i.e. Europeans (and to a degree US-Americans)).