I realize i should probably stop reading these forums untill i get a book in my hand, i tend to get negative

Anyway, are there rules for overwatch in dust warfare? Ive been reading some of the battle reports and cant see anything about it. Only getting to shoot back (react) if the target is within 12" seems a bit dull to me.

thanks

There a LOT more to reactions than that.

no Overwatch per se…. but get the book and try a few games,

all of your units have a limited overwatch sort off… you would have to read the rulebook to see what im talking about.

Shooting reactions are basically overwatch. The range is limited to 12", but the rifles of most units are limited to 16" anyways(Annoying I know.)

RogueRegault said:

16" ??! are you kidding me? Thats even worse than 40ks crappy 24" standard weapons … I thought the weapons would atleast have a somewhat realistic touch to them? 16" … isnt that what youd expect an air-rifle to manage?

AT-43 is actually starting to sound like the better ruleset.

The problem with realistic weapon ranges is the longer they are the bigger the board has to be. Unless you want to play 10mm armour, weapons are always going to have short ranges. You could double them up - but it might unbalance the game. I for one will wait unit ive played a few games of warfare before I make any snap judgements on the ruleset.

Panzerfaust101 said:

I know a number of 28mm wargames that doesnt have particularly short weapon ranges … Id like the option of playing on a larger table if i want to. With 16" it seems you might as well play tactics, because thats basically the same range as 4 squares. I was convinced that a game set in ww2 (with fantastic weapons) would atleast have a semi-realistic feel to it, instead I get a tabletop version of paintball ..? 16" = 40cm = about 20 meters in 28mm scale .. wow really? a rifle that fires a maximum distance of 20 meters? There must have been some type of range modifier/penalty that could have been added to make this whole thing less silly.

Most boards should have enough terrain on them to make 16" an effective range anyway

I do think they should have made the ranges longer for all weapons but you also risk making the game a static affair without much manuvering and tactics and both sides just blast each other from the board edges. I am fine with things like they are because most battles ended up fairly close in anyways especially with city fighting which is what we are planning to do a lot of.

Vepr said:

But the chance of hitting should be bigger the closer you get, and so the tactics of s shooty game (i hear there was lots of it in WW2) relies alot on moving between cover and supression (wich is already in the game) … I think a games mechanic needs to be logic enough to allow for several different table setups and still be fun … WW2 was fought in many different theatres and under many different conditions, not just cluttered city fights.

Hatamoto said:

As I mentioned I don't disagree that they should have figured out a way to make both long and short range fighting work. I think with the supression system gamers would have just worked on the getting the most long range firepower they could have into their list and not bothered with anything else. Anyone that did not build for long range firepower would have had an uphill battle to face every game. I am reminded of playing space wolves or imperial guard with my tyranids in the current 40k environment. They could have worked out a more strict platoon system I suppose or made units with machine guns much more expensive etc but balancing long range hard hitting units in a table top game is easier said than done. Maybe make units that shoot at full range unable to make reactions or take orders? Not sure how to do it without it making some sense or being heavy handed.

Hatamoto said:

Dunno about you, but i don't want Dust Warfare to be a game where everybody waits in trenches until someone pops his head out and then he gets shot…

Limited ranges means this does not happens too much.

And as far as reducing difficulty the closer one is to his target… i played enough BattleTech to know it can become a real pain of mathematics with just a few units. I'm not looking for WWII BattleTech in Dust Warfare… i want a more streamlined system that can accomodate more troops and units.

In Dust Tactics, the sniper rifle has a range of about 20 meters… so what? It sure beats a "realistic" sniper that can shoot the Kommandotrup's radioman from the other side of the map… that would make it a boring game… Let's spam the snipers since they are cheap, as soon as you move out of behind a wall your better infantrymens are history!

And also, i dunno about you, but i don't want to play Dust Warfare on the floor. I have a 6'x4' table… I don't want to buy a larger one because Dust Warfare requires an insane table to get it's ranges more realistic.

And i also don't want to spend 10 minutes every turn just figuring out which units can fires at which ones because of insanely big ranges. Keeping it small makes it easier to play.

In short: this is a game, not a representation of reality.

Hatamoto said:

deedob said:

Nowhere did i mention i want insane or realistic ranges on the weapons, i have no idea where that came from … I just wish theyd up the range a bit, to a level that is more commonly used (24-30"). I have never had to play AT-43 or 40k on the floor because of insane weapon range btw. Do you seriously mean that a 6x4 couldnt accommodate standard weapons that shoot longer than 16" without being game breaking?

Whatever, i was just hoping id get something more sophisticated than dust tactics 4 grids translated into inches …

One bonus I have noticed to the shorter ranges is the games seem to go faster with both sides going toe to toe fairly fast.

One thing they could introduce is an order that doubles range with maybe some sort of side effect like the unit cannot move the next turn etc because they really set in to take careful shots or maybe make them easier to hit because they are static for the careful shot etc. That way you could get a few non-vehicle units that can shoot at longer ranges sometimes without it being game breaking because it requires orders.

Vepr said:

Yes, exactly something like that .. a trade-off of sorts I had an idea where after a certain range (beyond the weapons standard range), maybe you would have to reroll all hits once. Of course i havent got the book yet so im just pondering the possibilities. I know one thing, i wont be playing this game without some type of house rule on this issue

On the topic of range for most basic guns.

Most of the troops are armed with assualt rifles. In another WW2 game that uses no super-science or weirdness Bolt Action the range for an assault rifle is 12 inches. A non-assualt rifle has a range of 24" in Bolt Action.

So 16 inches is a reasonable range especially if you are trying to encourage move and fire and to make the reaction system meaningful while not letting every model on the table move in reaction a unit moving up.