I already kinda touched on this before in the "What You hope most from Descent 2E? " forum, but I thought it would be best to start this anew after reading another forum from on BGG (Board Game Geeks.com). The topic was the breakdown of how many different types of enemy units it would be in the 2nd Edition box. After reading this forum I became confused with his numbers of how many of each unit would be in the box. I was under the impression that they thought that they would have few enemy units, but have multiple enemy types. An example is they think there is going to be just 4 normal goblin archers and one master in the box. Overall I think that their numbers are too low, especially having just one master for each type. I'm I wrong about this or have I missed something? I know that FFG is trying to cut back on the amount of units on the board, but this seems crazy. Here is what they think for the numbers:

4+1 - Goblin Archer
4+1 - ???
4+1 - ???
4+1 - ???
3+1 - Barghest
3+1 - Flesh Moulder
3+1 - ???
2+1 - Ethin
2+1 - Wyrm

or

4+1 - Goblin Archer
4+1 - ???
4+1 - ???
3+1 - Barghest
3+1 - Flesh Moulder
3+1 - ???
2+1 - Ethin
2+1 - Wyrm
2+1 - ???
1+1 - ???

I think that they are getting these numbers off the bottoms of the enemy cards that have been shown thus far (The ones that show the numbers based on amount of players). From my post on the forum "What You hope most from Descent 2E?" I place the numbers high for individual units, and low on the different types. Here are the numbers that I see:

6+2 Goblin Archers
4+2 Flesh Moulders
4+2 Barghests
1(2?)+1 Two Headed Giant
1+1 Dragon/Wyrm

This totals so far to 23 or possibly 24. This leaves me to believe the other type of units we haven't seen yet can be broken down to multiple other pairings which I will not touch on since who knows what they can be. Granted I do believe that there might be another 6+2 melee group to mirror the ranged Goblin Archers group.

This leaves us with 13 to 14 enemy figures left to be anything. The one thing that intrigues me is if it is the odd number 13. This is just a theory; If it is 13 they could possibly break it down to 12 enemy units and a possible lieutenant (They creepy looking guy with the sword from the latest OL preview). Also, the Goblin Archer card mentions lieutenant, but it can easy be said they are talking about the lieutenants from the first edition.

Overall, this is just a theory of mine, but I want to know about the number of enemy units? Are there really going to be one master for every type? Read what I posted on the other forum "What You hope most from Descent 2E?", and then post your thoughts. Again, I think they are going to be fewer types with the same number of them from the first edition. It makes more sense in my mind to combined them to make one instead of having two that do the same thing. Example: The Giant and the Ogre becoming the two headed giant. Does any of this make any sense??? I really am open for a serious conversation about this for anyone interested.

P.S. I don't think we are going to see any enemy units that can swim just yet, but flying is a strong possibility.

IronRavenstorm said:

I can't remember where it comes from, but it has been confirmed that there will be nine different monsters included in the base set of 2E, so the first set of numbers you outline above (from BGG) seems likely.

Keep in mind that just because each monster group is quite small, it does not mean that there will only be a few monsters on the board, as the OL can have multiple monster groups on the board at once. So even if he is restricted to just two groups he can still have up to ten monsters on the board, which is plenty.

It's likely there will be at least one water-based monster so that they have all ten traits covered using just the base game monsters.

They certainly aren't talking about lieutenants from 1E, as there is no way to incorporate them into 2E games.

Second variant have 10 monster types, but it confirmed that there will be 9 types. So, I changed it on BGG forum and will do here

4+1 - Goblin Archer
4+1 - ???
4+1 - ???
4+1 - ???
3+1 - Barghest
3+1 - Flesh Moulder
3+1 - ???
2+1 - Ethin
2+1 - Wyrm

-or-

5+1 - ???
5+1 - ???
4+1 - Goblin Archer
4+1 - ???
3+1 - Barghest
3+1 - Flesh Moulder
2+1 - Wyrm
2+1 - Ethin
1+1 - ???

We made our (or I made it ) conclusion relying on information from Descent:JitDSE product page (38 monster figures) www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp and from Forge the new legend announce page www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp saying in the chapter "New heroes, new monsters… a whole new adventure" that there will be nine monster types.

Can you please explain where everyone is finding this info about just having one master per enemy type? If you can show me where this is, I think that it will help me understand the enemy breakdown better. Again, it doesn't make sense to me to just have one enemy master.

I only wrote down the five of the nine that I knew that had to be in the game, but I still think that if you break it down right with the last 13-14 enemy units left you can make it to nine different types (That is if you go by my numbers). In the first game they just had two dragons and giants (one white, one red), so why do people think that the two headed giant and the wyrm will get (two white, one red)? If FFG is trying to cut back on enemy units wouldn't they have them stay at a one (white) to one (red) with the biggest/baddest units?

I would like to agree with you Bleached Lizard about having the water type unit in the game, but I just can't picture a goblin type water unit. From the little of the board pieces they have shown us I can see that there is going to be water, so if they are going to have a water enemy it will be more amphibious then true water based like in Sea of Blood. Bleached Lizard, I just want to make sure that we are on the same page here. Do you think that they will bring forth new lieutenants for the second edition?

IronRavenstorm said:

I do not say that having two master monster is impossible and mine theory is right, I just don't see any reason to have 6+2 goblins, since second master can be used only if you have permission to use 2 goblin groups. In that case second group will consist of 1 master and 2 minions only. For me it is illogically. Making goblins like 8+2 it will be 28 figures fo other 8 types.

But in general, 38 / 9 = 4,222…. That is the key to my conclusion.

IronRavenstorm said:

For some reason, these forums won't let me reply inline. Oh well.

Thank you for clearing some things up on the matter. Really I wanted to know where people were coming up with this one master deal for each type. I know that things are going to change with this second edition compared to the first, but I just assumed (Like we are all doing at this point) that there would be two masters for each type. Maybe part of me thinks that in case you lose one you always have a second one to play with. Another part of me feels that two masters are always better then one when fighting (I love tough odds), or something else I can't put my finger on right now. Thanks again for shedding some light on this issue.

Sorry Bleached Lizard, I shouldn't have used the term "type" when writing about goblins and water. I should have used the word "themed" instead. I meant to say that I can't picture a goblin themed water unit. Since they are trying to go with a better theme overall with this new edition unlike the first edition. I can't think of a something to go with them that compliments the other units. I fear that they might come up with a giant crab monster to combine the spider unit with a water based unit.

Another thing I want to ask your opinion on Bleached Lizard. You first posted that there was no way to incorporate the first edition lieutenants in the second game, but your second post you mention the Lord Merric Farrow token. What are your theories on this? Do you think that they will have the old lieutenants, but not have them used in combat? Maybe have them for some story based RPG kinda thing? On this issue I have heard both sides out, and still don't know who to believe. Some say that the Lord Merric Farrow take proves that you can use the old lieutenants, and others say that they are just story fluff. You seem to have a level head on your shoulders, so I am interested about your two statements.

Thank you both for bring up some good points to think about, and for the wonderful conversation on the matter. I always like to think that two heads are better then one.

About lieutenants I have only one conclusion. They are definitely will be on the board with some tokens or figures, since goblin minions need them or master monster within 3 spaces to spend surges.

Yeah, but can we still incorporate the old ones?

My comment about the lieutenants was meant in this way: you stated that it was possible that the text on the Goblin Archer card could allow for the possibility that there were no LTs in 2E, and that the text was just there for use with the 1E LTs. I said that this could not be the case, as if there are no LTs in 2E, then there would be no way to use the 1E LTs in 2E (sorry if all the abbreviations are confusing)! So there *will* be LTs in 2E, and they will be the same ones as appear in 1E (i.e, same name, same images), but the mechanics on how they work will be different.

IronRavenstorm said:

No. There will be nothing in the Conversion Kit for LTs. But you will have the same ones in 2E.

If you're asking if you can still use the old *figures*, then yes.

Thank you. I knew from the card that there were going to be lieutenants, but I wanted to know if the old ones became obsolete on the battlefield. I feel strongly that they are going to come up with new lieutenants for us to face, but I felt bad to see the old ones go to waste. I am really interested in the mechanics of how they will be played in the new edition.