In the new expansion, Legend characters are defined as heros upon which the special effects of weapons using Natural 10's do not apply.

With the battery pack, the machine gun insta-kills on 9's and 10's. I believe that since this weapon's ability activates on a nat. 10, it would also not activate on a 9.

Thoughts?

Yeah, I would agree. The whole point of the natural 10 immunity is to prevent the natural 10 effects of those weapons. That one just happens to be natural 9s and 10s.

Any offical answer on this ?

We decided it could be read both ways .... it says you are immune to effects that are caused by a natural 10. The Battery gives you the bonus on a natrual 9 too .... so you could argue by the letter of the rule, 9's would instant kill, unless he rolled a N10 in defence.

I'll have a go at this -

Page 2 of the Novgorod rules state

"The real distinguishing mark of characters of this type (Legend) is their innate capacity to cancel the special powers of enemy equipment that operate on a Natural 10 Combat Roll"

(italics and brackets mine)

Therefore it seems clear - to me at least - that the power is negated. No mention is made of the power being reinstated in any circumstance ie the battery for a flash gun

Over to other rules lawyers?

Nhoj

I would have to say that the battery will not have any effect on legendary characters. The natural 10 rule is also activated on 9s with a battery. This would just extend the rule to 9s, but not change it basically making natural 9s count as 10s. Since legendary characters are immune to the natural 10 I would also say they are immune to weapons that have an add on for the natural 9.

Xanthis gives a first nomination

Second?

or refute?

Nhoj

From Novgorod Rule Book Page 2 :-

"... innate capacity to cancel the special powers of an enemy equipment that operates on a Natrual 10 Combat Roll"

From the Orginal Rule Book, Page 37 :-

"This power supply when connected to his Flash Machine Gun, allows Sgt.Brown ti kill his target instantly on a natrual 9 or 10 Combat Roll, ..."

No where under Brown's Battery does it say that a 9 "Counts as a 10" ... therefore if you go by the letter of the rules, 9's will kill him, as neither abiltiy give's either inclussions or exclussions.

While I'm willing to accept that the intent was he would be immune to 9's as well, thats not what the rules say imho.

Well you can go technical and say that a 9 is not a 10, but the special ability occurs on a 10 under normal circumstances. The battery treats 9s as 10s and would then use the same rules as a natural 10. You can play it however you like, but this is just the way I see it. Maybe an updated FAQ page or one of the french guys can clear this up.

Xanthis said:

But thats the point I'm trying to make, it DOESN'T say "treat a 9 as a 10", it says a 9 will instant kill. It doesn't matter that the effect normally ocours under a 10 only, the power supply specifically overides this and makes it a 9 or a 10. If it said "A 9 counts as a 10" or "Treat natural 9's as 10's" , or if the Legend rule said you was immune to all "natural dice roll effects from weapons", then I will 100% agree with you, but the fact's remain it doesn't.

We ARE playing it that 9's or 10's are ignored ... however that doesn't change the fact that the rules, as written right now, don't back that up .... hence why I would like an offical responce, or something added to the FAQ.

Scalpel said:

Wow! An actual rules lawyer!!

Relax, I'm not gonna disagree since you seem to be playing with the spirit of the rules rather than the letter

Nhoj

Nhoj said:

Firstly there is a difference between playing the rules as written, and being a forum "Rules Lawyer". A Rule Lawyers will try and break the rules for his advantage ... a gamer who plays by the rules as written in the book isn't doing it for an advantage, but just wants to play it right!

Even if I am a Rules Lawyer, it doesn't change the fact that that the rules don't stop the 9's ATM, which iswhy I bounced this thread up in the first place.

You seem to agree that the letter of the rules is that a 9 doesn't get stopped, but don't want to debate it because I'm not playing it that way. For the sake of getting the right rule, and/or getting it added to the FAQ .... I no longer will play it this way ... can you now debate it without using the words like "intent" , and prove to me somehow that the rules back up your view ?

It's all well and good assuming that the intent was for Legends to be immune, but how can you be sure without an offical answer ?

First off, let me say it is hard for me to follow who said what, due to the similar avatars (thanks FFG).

Scalpel - I don't think Nhoj meant any offense. He just stated how he would proceed.

I would agree that in the the spirit of the rules, a Legendary character would be immune to 9's for reasons cited. It strikes me like a cheap loophole if it didn't work that way. Unfortunately, there are translation errors in the rules. so it's hard to be completely sure.

I'm pretty sure that FFG won't address this in any FAQ whatsoever. In my experience, I've never seen them reply to anything in the forums.

Indeed no offence was intended - hence the wink

Nhoj

littlewars said:

Hard for you ? I keep thinking I've posted stuff I've never written, then try and think back to the night before and ask .. "how drunk was I?"

littlewars said:

Fair enough, TBH I wasn't that offended, but I did want to point out there is a very thin line between wanting to play the rules right, and being the dirty version of a rule lawyer.

littlewars said:

I tend to agree, I suspect some badly translated text is to blame, which is a such a shame, because there are plenty of people here would / could proof-read the rules before they were published.

Also a shame that we get no replies here, compared to say BSG which often gets the odd post by someone explaining the intent of the rules, and the FAQ getting resonable updates.

Well I would say that - in general terms - new rules supercede old ones. So Novgorod should be considered the latest word.

Now link back to my original post

But in the end - those who bought the game can decide for themselves. I have many 'house' rules and they pertain to almost all of the games I own. Take for example my 'house' dice rolling rule. -------- (Multiple dice must be rolled together - if any die or 'dice' falls off the table or is 'cocked' - roll ALL dice again) ----- seems pretty simple but can still cause argument/discussion.

I try to play within the 'spirit' of the rules ------- and Have Fun!

Regards all

Nhoj

Scalpel said:

Hi!

You made good presumptions but wrong conclusion

If you ask correct qustion, the answer should be obvious :

Q : Is FMG Power supply an equipment, that operates (also) on a Natural 10 Combat Roll?

A : Yes!

So the autokill special power is canceled, due to fact, that it's an equipment, that operates with natural 10. The fact it works also with 9 makes no difference. There are not two separate abilities, autokill on natural 10 and autokill on natural 9.

If it was the way you sad, that autokill on natural 9 and 10 are both separate powers, then roll with both 9 and 10 would trigger both these powers. And therefore the characters are double killed (if shock roll shows no 10). That might be important with Reich trooper (the one with Demon hand).

So the effect (of autokill) is canceled (as intended by creators) due to fact, that autokill on 9 and/or 10 is just one power (and because of 10 included in it canceled by the first rule you posted).

cya

sa3xxx said:

I would come to the very same conclusion.

The Battery and the Flash guns are Equipent that work an natural 10s, so their Special natural 10 mechanism is cancelled by legends. I is stated in the Rules, that Multiple naturals are considerd as one autokill-event, and only need to be cancelled by one natural 10 in the shockroll, therefore the battery effect has to be "auto kill on natural 9 or 10" as one effect, that, as said before, operates on a natural 10 and therefore is countered,