The ugly attached to the m1 assault rifle. Do all the weapons fire at once at 12" and under? In other words, do you get to fire the m1's and the grenade launchers all at once?

You can or you can split the lines to different targets in range

So, if you have 5 M1 with UGL, you can hit up to 10 different targets. You will usually want to concentrate fire to minimize reactions, but you can do it if you want.

Gobbo said:

2 different targets. Each seperate weapon line can target one unit. So if you had 5 M1's and they have UGL's. They could target all of them at one unit, or one each to 2 different units.

blkdymnd said:

I don't think that's right. Check page 40, bottom paragraph, last three lines: "For instance, a unit with 7 M1 ARs could fire each one at a different target. This may trigger reactions from multiple enemies."

I can see how confusing it's going to be to keep the rules straight when Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare rules are so similar and yet so different.

I skipped the example when I read each weapon, thinking like Tactics, each weapon line. I gotta shutup on rules questions for awhile til I get the two games seperate in my head

The UGL is ugly in that it seems to mean that any and all basic allied units completely ignore enemy cover if they get within 12".

Not to mention that they can, if they choose, inflict automatic suppression on all targets within 12" by just allocating one grenade to it.

This seems quite strange to me, and one would think the Axis (and other future factions) would need stuff like Zombies (who don't care about cover all that much) to combat it. But how do grenadiers take on the rangers then?

Yeah, this is the only kinda wonky rule that Warfare has that I have seen. The weapon line per target from Tactics was much cleaner.

Remember, as well, that as written, any weapon that would suppress a vehicle instead gets to roll on the Vehicle Damage Table. Of course, the rules specify the vehicle suffers additional effects, but is not clear on how those effects are determined. I would expect a single dice roll, but it doesn't say.

You have that wrong. Vehicles cannot be suppressed, and you only roll in the table if you DAMAGE it but not destroy it. You roll as many dice as you damaged it with and add up your hits, then refer to the table. Grenades only affect vehicles if they get past the armor roll.

keep in mind that those UGL's need to be reloaded. They pack some serious damage and mean the target loses its damage reduction due to cover, but thats a 1 time deal unless you wish to lose an action reloading next turn.

Can I just fire one grenade each attack though, to get the cover-negating effect without having to reload so often?

So if I have 3 IUGLs, can I just fire one of them and still have 2 left for a later attack, ensuring then that I'll get 3 attacks that ignore cover? Or does using one of them mean I have to put the "Out of Ammo" marker on my unit and reload before using UGLs again?

(This same question actually goes for Steel Rain, which has 2 reloadable weapons - do the 2 weapons get tracked separately for reloading?)

you dont have to use all of them, at least in Tactics it was that way, but to reload its one action. i would assume since say you have 4 UGL's and fire one at a time and then after all that you spend 1 reload action to reload them all that would be acceptable. But to even reload one weapon it still takes 1 of your 2 actions to do

Tequila Sousa said:

I don't think the RAW allow for individual tracking of ammo… there's a statement that says the models act as a team, what one does they all do… they all attack or they all move… if you fire UGL's they all do… if some aren't in range, too bad… they still fired… at least that's how I'm playing it.

The next step would be to track one soldier shooting while another moved… both single actions that they "could" take together as one action.

Even for steel rain, if you fire the 4.2's and not the mortar… too bad, you receive an OOA marker and can't fire any reload weapon again until it's removed… at least according to the rules

Gimp said:

That isn't a rule. I'm not sure where you are getting that.

I know the rulebook wording is somewhat vague, but I do not beleive UGLs are supposed to remove cover for all weapons fired from a unit using a UGL. I believe a more reasonable interpretation of the grenade rule and the burst rule is that the removal of cover applies to those weapons' attacks only. To be clear, I do not think the intent is if I fire one UGL at a unit, all my other weapons firing at that time (rifles, etc. ) get to ignore cover.

It does seem powerful, however, that 4 UGLs could each fire at a different target and produce 4 suppression markers in a single round. As other have pointed out, thanks to reload this will onyl happen maybe twice a game…

mariettabrit said:

I think I agree with you (because of the extra bookkeeping and also because of the overpoweredness of UGLs if they can fire or not fire individually), but with the Steel Rain example, I looked carefully through the rules to try to find where it was clear about this, and couldn't find it. Can you point to where in the rules it states what you're saying?

And I could, as a team, decide not to fire UGLs, correct? So I could save them to attack someone in cover in a later turn without having to reload?

felkor said:

Certainly if nobody fires the UGL's during an attack then no OOA marker is given to the unit. So yes you can save the UGL attack for when it's most needed.

For Steel Rain, I believe (don't have rulebook handy) that when you fire any weapon that has the reload ability you receive an OOA marker… hence if you chose not to fire the mortar when you fire the 4.2's you still receive an OOA marker. The mortar can't be fired until your OOA marker is removed because it's a reload weapon… Granted… the steel rain dual weapon would be easier to track for each OOA, but it's easier book keeping.

Thinking about this more though, I guess they do imply individual tracking of ammo with Manfred… he doesn't have to reload… yet any unit he was with would… hmmm.

Ok, I think I will play it that any use of reloadable weapon gets OOA marker for the unit.

For Manfred - his weapon doesn't need to be reloaded, so if his unit gets an OOA marker, it simply doesn't affect him, and he could still fire his panzerfaust. Or if he fired his panzerfaust and nobody else did, then you just wouldn't get an OOA marker. I think that it will play reasonably straight forward without extra bookkeeping.

Gentlemen, just to clarify - even if you only fire 1 UGL, no more UGL shots may be made until it is reloaded.

pg 58 - Reload summation -

after the weapon is fired, put a reload counter by it.

special action must be taken to remove a reload counter

a unit may not fire its reloaded weapons until the marker is removed

so by the looks if it you have all been playing it correctly so far - if you fire all, some or one of the UGL's, none of them can be fired again until a reload action takes place.

blkdymnd said:

Per page 44: 'Vehicles do not gain Suppression markers. Instead, vehicles suffer additional effects on the Vehicle Damage Table.'

That's fine if they were trying to say vehicles don't suffer any effects from Suppression, and instead will roll on the Vehicle Damage Table when they are hit as an alternate effect to somehow balance the lack of Suppression, but the wording says they suffer something from the Vehicle Damage Table when they would be Suppressed in place of the Suppression effect.

The paragraph cited includes nothing except the stipulation they don't suffer Suppression, but instead suffer a VDT effect without referencing the need for anything but something that would cause Suppression to force a VDT roll.

Vehicles not suffering from Suppression is understandable due to the way they structured Suppression as a substitute for morale effects, but consider that vehicles have been driven off battlefields many times without being damaged.

So you only ever read one paragraph in a set of rules? No wonder you've gotten so much of the rules innacurate

": 'Vehicles do not gain Suppression markers. Instead, vehicles suffer additional effects on the Vehicle Damage Table.'"

i can see why you might think that Gimp, but a quick inspection of the vehicle damage table and the rules beside clarify that the factor that results in rolls on the table is damage, not suppression.

to explain, the quote from page 44 does not state that vehicle damage table rolls occour rather then supression, its stating they simply take vehicle damage table rolls. Thats full-stops for you, and the VDT is explained in the next paragraph.