We have a player in my group who is a moritat assassin and very good at melee/killing, but feels restricted by the cult's guidelines and feels the character is becoming unfun to play. Any ideas on how they can fix this?

Some ideas I have heard is go the faithful wrote and allow them to purchase TRUE FAITH and faith talents like the redemptionist in 'Blood of Martyrs'

The player also hinted at breaking away from the cult officially, how would that change things for the group?

Main gear is BQ Mono Sword (Sanctified Recently), BQ Mono Devil's Kiss Stilleto (with tox dispenser), essentially a breakdown pistol crossbow and a composite bow for long range.

What high tech gear is there (Besides Lathe) to supplement this? Hypo-Pistol? (IH, Hive, Exotic), Widower? (IH, Hive, Exotic), Catechist Crossbow? (IH, Inquisition, Primitive, fires holy stake bolts), Needle Weapons? (DH Core)

There just don't seem to be a lot of interesting endgame options, besides power weapons and I think FFG clarified Moritat dont get tearing on that while powered, plus not sure about the WP test and the fact the blade doesn't cut. (Probably would be allowed though)

Well since he decided to be a Moritat assassin to begin with, he pretty much knew (one would hope) what he was heading into. Bloodcult assassins and deathcultists tend to be pretty sick in the head, however their strict adherence to the tenets of their specific cult is what is 'expected' of them in most cases but the Moritat.

The Moritat are so brainwashed, so amazingly absorbed in the idea of killing for the emprah, using only the most high-skill weapons as possible (melee and ancient ranged weapons) that they must make willpower tests to NOT use a bladed weapon. If your player wants to move away from this mindset, it should be a deep series of roleplaying decisions and probably involve quite a bit of soulsearching and outside help. If he is not willing to do that, but simply wants to pick up a heavy bolter and start pumping out damage, then maybe it is best if he retires the character.

Anyway sorry. non-answer going on up there.

Truefaith seems to be a matter of purity of faith rather than the 'correctness' of the faith. Seeing as how the ministorum is as divided as would be expected of a galaxy-spanding organization and there are as many ways to worship the emprah as there are Imperial-worlds, I would say that Truefaith COULD be an elite-advance option, however it should not be awarded lightly. Consider that people with faithtalents are essentially miracleworkers (though some more overtly than others) and miracles should be something amazing and special. Not to mention the great impact it will have on the characters social-status with many imperial organizations.

If the player breaks away from the cult that would be the basis for some very nice roleplaying. Also your group just got some new enemies
I like to think of the Moritat as the Dark Brotherhood from The Elder Scrolls, taken to extremes. It's a family. A family of likeminded, insane, deathworshipping fanatics, who are so devoted to their cult-mindset, that they will gladly charge into melee with an enemy wielding a combat shotgun, if it means the chance to shed blood in the Emperor's name. If someone breaks away from the family, it shames the rest of them and their dedication to their father-figure, and the family's collective daddy-issues will ensure that the offending family member, will find himself cut off, or rather find himself with his head cut off.

This is just my opinion, though.

In terms of equipment there ARE limitations as long as he stays true to the Moritat mindset. Power-weapons are very much endgame for him and while not overwhelming damage-wise a powerweapon is not designed to cut down your every-man enemy,. They are designed for duelling and to take down high.armor targets. If the enemy is lightly armored a chainsword or mono-variants of several primitive weapons (Bathed in toxins, of course) is the way to go.

Discussing weaponry for a Moritat is a strange thing, because they are not actually fighters, they are hunters. It is not the games intent to have the Moritat reaper charge headlong into a line of autogun wielding enemies, while his team provides suppresive fire. The Moritat shines when fighting on his own terms, as should any assassin worth his salt.

Fight using the environment, tight corridors, alleyways, stuff like that. Use cover, move to block line of sight and use concealment to get the jump on enemies. Fight in the darkness. Pull back when the going gets tough, if the enemy follows, retreat and set up a killing field, ambushing them as they follow. If they make a run for it, track them down and finish them off when you have the upper hand. Anyway, non-answer again.

While there are many melee weapons in the game, many of them use the same mechanics, and if he intends to stay true to the Moritat code, then he -will- run smack into a wall in terms of equipment at some point.

-Nearyn

The player did know what they going into, but with something like that, a background or alt rank that looks attractive early on can look different a couple thousand XP later (and several adventures). Though the character's changes come from the interaction with the cell and seeing the outside world and different opinions (after a while), combined with friendship towards the rest of the cell. And it would be a deep soul-searching thing to break away from the cult's strict mindset, though to what degree is unsure (and how far they would eventually stray from the ideals, and if the Inquisitor will shelter the assassin or leave her to face her chosen fate).

I wonder if True-Faith could come as breaking away from the cult's narrow and distorted guidelines, but holding onto her faith and being intensified for not just blind thoughtless devotion but actual will behind it?

Speaking of breaking away from the cult, could that be done as an internal decision and not a public "2 weeks notice" kind of thing? Publicly acting like one, but actually considering themselves not a member anymore.

And on equipment, there are obviously limitations, but what is your take on "power weapons and tearing" and the more advanced but 'bladed' exotic weapons like the needle rifle/pistol, widower, catechist and hypo-pistol?

As a side note, can power weapons become holy? Could you apply power cicuitry to a lathe blade and have a BQ unpowered lathe blade that turns into a CQ power sword? Any recomendations for melee weapons a Moritat would use (and are efficient)

Edit: What are the other options for powerful blades? The fractal blade from Rogue Trader is Rending for example, the Ghost Sword is E, so probably not, then there are annointed blades, *shock* DAEMON WEAPONS *gasp* Any of those acceptable?

I kinda have to agree, that going in the he had to have some idea where this PC would go.

Is he a Reaper yet? That will effect the issues he will have.

He can Roleplay braking with the Cult. But well, remember they exist on most planets, and well.. 1 of their own who turned their back on the Cult, is bad enough, but a Reaper who turned his back. Well now u are talking someone worth sending small groups of Killers to bring back to the fold or kill their loose cannon

Naturally your player could break off from the cult mindset and keep quiet about it. And seeing as how he is likely travelling a bit, working for the inquisition, they cannot keep taps on him, nor should they have reason to. However should circumstances conspire against him, he may find himself being investigated by his own cult.

Maybe he is seen by a member of the moritat who recognizes his style, but is wondering why he is killing with an autogun (speculations) rather than the sacred blade. Things such as this could result in his own family taking notice and send a member to observe/(ask to) the characters convictions and try to persuade the character back on the 'right' track. If they get confirmation that he is not following the tenets, but instead slays with whatever weapon he pleases, then the **** could very well hit the fan.

From a roleplaying perspective you could argue that him breaking away from the cult, COULD be the reason for gaining faith talents. For instance:

The character, after many weeks/months/years/whatever of soul searching and foreign council, decides that it is not the method that makes the kill holy, but rather the death of the enemy by any means necessary. If the character comes to see him breaking away from the cult, not as a fall from grace, but as an ascension to a higher level of efficient, merciless murder, you could start giving him access to "The Emperor's Wrath" tree of faith talents for instance.

Just making suggestions though

I have not seen the message from FFG regarding powerfields and tearing, but it makes sense to me, though I think it should have been worded so as to allow them to stack. Powerfield prevents the blade from connecting and as such if the blade is tearing it should not stack. However I think that since the Moritat's ability to get tearing on blade weapons stem from technique, rather than the sword magically getting tearing, it should stack with powerfield. If FFG have ruled otherwise, then there's not much to discuss though. (except you can rule 0 it).

I would say Needlers are outside the moritat spectrum and should incur a willpower-test to be used. However you could argue (I assume) that all weapons that deal rending damage can be used by the Moritat without willpower checks. If so, then needlers are a definate yes, against unarmored targets or enemies with certain unarmored hitlocations. Toxic is a *****.

The Cathecist is also a nice weapon and definitely within the Moritat spectrum, so no worries there. However they are not exactly easy to come by. It is a holy weapon and should be treated as such.

I think you COULD add a powerfield to a latheblade, but I also think that would incur the wrath of the AdMech -unless- you got a certified magus to wring it.

Well what would be efficient is not easily answered. The correct answer I suppose would be: "Whatever is fitting at the time". In terms of raw power and maximizing damage on every strike, then I'd say go with a daemon weapon. However if your campaign is the least bit Roleplay > Rollplay, then I'd think take note of how they treat said daemon weapon. Using that thing is a sure path to damnation and using it is a radical act in its own.

Adding weapons from other systems is for you alone to decide.

Whether a daemonweapon is acceptable is a matter of the character, rather than the rules.

Can't he take the Redemptionist alternate advance and get True Faith that way?

True faith should be extremely rare; to get it as an elite advance I would charge 1000 XP at the absolute minimum.

The character, after many weeks/months/years/whatever of soul searching and foreign council, decides that it is not the method that makes the kill holy, but rather the death of the enemy by any means necessary. If the character comes to see him breaking away from the cult, not as a fall from grace, but as an ascension to a higher level of efficient, merciless murder, you could start giving him access to "The Emperor's Wrath" tree of faith talents for instance.

I do like that

I have not seen the message from FFG regarding powerfields and tearing, but it makes sense to me, though I think it should have been worded so as to allow them to stack. Powerfield prevents the blade from connecting and as such if the blade is tearing it should not stack. However I think that since the Moritat's ability to get tearing on blade weapons stem from technique, rather than the sword magically getting tearing, it should stack with powerfield. If FFG have ruled otherwise, then there's not much to discuss though. (except you can rule 0 it).

The GM probably will, but here is the FFG take on it (not erratta though, so technically not full on).

FFG_Sam Stewart said:

So no tearing as the field cuts, not the blade. Some blades have a special powerfield "effect" because of their construction, but still cut with an actual blade, like the fractal blade in RT.

On Needle weapons, they have elements of a cutting edge.

Needle pistols use a low-power laser beam to propel small slivers of crystalline coated in viral toxins. Enemies wounded by them are almost instantly
paralysed or dead within moments. As they are virtually silent and have no muzzle flash, needle weapons are ideal for assassins.

But just far enough to not be one sadly. And the Widower/Hypo-Pistol?

I think you COULD add a powerfield to a latheblade, but I also think that would incur the wrath of the AdMech -unless- you got a certified magus to wring it.

Yeah, well that sort of modification you don't do by yourself XD

Angel of Death said:

No, not one yet, but coming soon.

bogi_khaosa said:

The Redemptionist Alt Advance has Pure Faith as 200 and Faith Talents as 300. In the Cell Directives Section, Pure Faith as 500 and 300 for Faith Talents and if taken, they would be limited to the combat ones probably.

Cymbel said:

I mean that I would require the character to take a full alternate rank or cell directive.Or pay. Through. The. Nose. You should have to sacrifice a lot to get access to something like Pure Faith. There's a reason Redemptionist lowers your income to jack squat.

Well, it doesn't have to be super expensive (1000xp), but it wouldn't be easy to get either. As this requires rebuilding the moritat's faith, having a breakthrough and then some.

Cymbel said:

Like I just edited into my post, there's a reason the Confessor and Redemptionist ranks drop your income to near-nothing. It's a trade-off for having access to Pure faith and the Faith Powers.

Currently we don't really get income per se, just a bonus here and there and whatever we can scrounge up.

In regards to the Artificio-Biologis, 0.5 I Hypo pistol and the Cadence "Widower" dart caster device:

I don't think I would allow a Moritat to use any of these weapons in combat without a willpower-test. They are death-cultists and using an injector-pistol that (usually) is used to take people alive seems like it wouldn't sit well with them. Sure it can be rigged to fire toxic shots, but even then why would you not fire custom arrows from a hand-crossbow instead? Hand-crossbow launched bolts, tipped with adamantine for maximum armor-pen and coated in toxins.

This fits well with my mental image of Moritat. The high-tech injector-gun: not so much.

Sure if you're in a situation where you need the moritat for his ability to remain unseen, and need to capture someone alive, then (assuming you can get him to go along with it) I would allow him to sneak in, fire a Hypo pistol (seeing as he is not going for the sacred kill, but just capturing a meat-sack for interrogation) and drag the target out, fireman-style.

The Widower could have been a go too, but IMO it fails because it has GUN written a bit too much on it. A Moritat should use high-skill primitive weapons when they make the sacred kill, taking a life in the Emperor's name. Now they can mod these weapons, so they can take down better equipped targets and become more proficient murderers, but the overall feel of the weapons are the same: Power-sword (Sword + powerfield) Mono-sword (sword + monotreatment) Bow that fires adamantine-drill tipped arrows, carrying compact explosives (bow + creativity). The Widower feels more like a gun that fires stakes, than it feels like a crossbow or bow-weapon. I like to picture the Moritat finding the act of killing with a Gun-type weapon distasteful, and spiritually unfulfilling, and therefore only resorting to it when obviously, there is no other way to take down the target. Therefore a gun-type weapon like the widower, does not sit well with me, and I would not allow a Moritat to use it in combat without passing WP. After all, even though swords seem to be their iconic weapon, you would not imagine them using a custom made gun, that fired swords, because they still "Killed with the blade" or some such nonsense.

Anyway, this is just opinion. Feel free to disagree

Cymbel said:

You need some kind of massive downside to balance out that he'sgetting The Bloody Edge and Pure Faith and being able to use guns (apparently) all at the same time.

Well, if the moritat got pure faith, it wouldn't neccessarily mean using guns. There would be some balance (I hope).

And the Hypo Pistol would only be for missions that require no unneeded kills.

The thing that makes the widower a grey ground, is the fact that it fires razor sharp darts and then accurately (allowing a perfect cut) and the only high tech part is essentially a magnetic crossbow

And explosive arrows would really be against the Moritat code, being well, super modern, explosives and not rending at all.

Cymbel said:

But the thing is, the text does not specify, nor even indicate that we're dealing with a crossbow-type weapon. Actually it is compared to a needler (which very much qualifies for the "gun-type" label). Also it has an extendable barrel and stock. To me this seems like a gun that turns into a rifle, that just happens to fire small shivs of metal. I (emphasis on -I-) would not allow a Moritat player to use it without WP, on that basis. Yes the damage is rending (and as discussed, it could therefore be argued that the Moritat could use it), but personally I am not sure I approve. It does not seem like the kind of weapon the Moritat would train their Assassins with. (Which makes it unqualified for the Holy purpose)

Cymbel said:

Now here I vehemently disagree. The type of ammunition should not really matter, as much as the weapon itself. After all, if we assume a Moritat can use a power-sword (because we logically assume they are trained in the use of swords), we can assume they can use fysiline tipped arrows. After all a power.-sword is not a rending weapon either, it is an energy-weapon that deals energy-damage. I can't imagine they would turn it down on that basis. Nor would I assume that a Moritat refuses to use modern poisons on his blade, but only employ ancient, horribly outdated poisons, simply because the new ones are "impure". I do not consider them demented, murderous Amish people, who refuses to use any item that do not have the primitive quality. If such a thing as a shield-breaker arrow exist somewhere out there, I would not think they would be "too good" to use it, nor can I imagine them not using Rykehuss' powerstakes because they're high-tech.

So yeah, I do not agree that boom-tips on arrows or bolts would be against the Moritat code. On the contrary I believe they would applaud the improvement in efficiency, while retaining the purity of the weapon.

Eldar Shuriken and Mono-filament weaponry would probably fall into the very grey area of acceptability.

What I would do is make him leave the Moritat and become a Redemptionist, thereby losing The Bloody Edge and obtaining access to Pure Faith.

And creating interesting roleplaying possibilities along the way,

BTW bullets and chainswords create tons of blood, that is obviously not the reason why Moritat cannot use them (without a WP roll). It's pretty clear that the character type is intended to allow a viable sword-wielding death cultist at low Ranks (as Metallican Gunslinger is intended to make the pistol-packing archetype competitive), and I am not going to allow people to game it with shuriken pistols because they have an R damage type.

From the player who plays the PC, asked me to post this from them:

I have no intention of becoming a Redemptionist and I don't want Pure Faith. One of the themes I'm going for with this character is a fanatical killer who's slowly losing faith in her creed and her superiors. Eventually she'll break away from the Moritat (likely earning their enmity) and have to fight off former fellow assassins sent to kill her.

Out-of-character, I'm frustrated by the Moritat's limitations, and while I regret taking the starting package by now, I've invested too much into this character to simply throw her away. So I think a little fall from grace might be in order.

Are chain weapons considered bladed► Was asked this by a player and really didn''t have a good answer. I would say yes because each of little blades inside the chain are bladed.

Cymbel said:

As the PC pass from the Moritat into a more loose rules, I beleive you would loose the Bloody Edge, as you are no longer follow the code and the methods. And at least they know that Moritat will be coming after them, if they leave as a Reaper, I think the Threat will be greater to the PC then a non-Reaper. Still I wish you luck on your change.

As a fellow Moritat, I do understand the limitations that u are feeling. Sometimes having a Handgun or a Rifle might be nice. Now I have to say we recently were in a "Noble operation" and I was acting as the bodyguard and had a handgun as part of cover. Still my code, when a threat appeared I drew a blade not a gun.

nethru said:

They are, but not precise, so you could make an argument that FFG used with power blades and not give them tearing….Which is a moot point, as chain weapons HAVE tearing already. But if Moritat can use Power Swords (Which they can), then they can use Chain Weapons. IF they want to is another matter, as a BQ mono sword is pretty much equal/better to the chain sword for a cheaper cost AND silent AND lighter. A good rule of thumb is to look at the damage type of a weapon, if it doesn''t have R(ending) Damage, it probably doesn''t get tearing. If it does, then you look closer to see the details. You can make an argument for some ranged weapons, but in the end the GM decides.

nethru said:

I would say no. The Moritat package, if you look at it, seems to exist to make a certain archetype playable, the sword-wielding death cultist, who otherwise would not be a viable combat character. It does this by allowing them to, in effect, make any bladed weapon into a chain weapon by giving in the Tearing Quality, Every weapon they have is already a chain weapon.

As to the OP, for some reason I thought the player wanted Pure Faith. If he doesn't, just let him lose the Bloody Edge Trait, both plusses and minusses, and it's all good.

I was asked to post this follow-up to their original statement. They looked over the thread again, thought about it and decided to go in a new direction:

Perhaps I will become a Reaper after all. It occurs to me that instead of changing my build, I should change my tactics. While I may use tools that other Moritat may frown on as unorthodox (smoke bombs, booby traps, or using charm/deceive/disguise rather than outright stealth) ultimately I'm still gonna be stabbing things. The thing I'd like to know is how I can maximize my strengths while negating my weaknesses. A.K.A. Moritactics~!

They probably won't go for Pure Faith soon, but it is an option to look into, but they would rather spend their XP on other things first.

I'm actually in sort of a similar situation to your player's myself - I've been playing a Moritat since our group started, and currently we're right around the 4,000 experience mark…. And my character IS starting to fall behind in terms of potential - people are getting their hands on plasma weapons and bolters and giant-ass rifles, and my only REAL option (a Lathe-blade) is extremely expensive and more-rare-than-usual according to our GM (due to being outside the Calixis… blah). This isn't helped by the fact that the GM decided to grant the party psyker access to a force weapon and a background package that's mostly assassin-esque abilities (some of them for cheaper than I get as an actual assassin).

Needless to say, I'm not overly pleased by the idea of my melee-focused assassin being easily out-matched by a psyker, mainly because he's got infinitely-better weaponry (a Force Sword on a high-WP character isn't something a Moritat can really compete against by-the-book)… but, lest I digress into further bitching, I'll bring up a point I don't think I've seen expressed yet: Why don't you make up some stuff?

I've looked through all the books in search of options, and I have to say that, for all the wildly varying options for ammunition, there are very few in-book options when it comes to melee weapons - but I'm hoping to change that. Some options I've been thinking about, and am planning to pitch to the GM, include…

Bladed whip (see Grox Whip {RT})
Ex: Melee, 1d10+3 R, Pen 2, 3m Range, Flexible, 340 Thrones
- This lil baddy, basically a mono'd grox whip, gives some extra range and is difficult to Parry. Not a bad option, at the very least, especially if used in conjuncture with another weapon.

Mono-wire Garrotte (see same-name {Radical's HB})
Ex: Melee, 1d10 R, Pen 2, Flexible, Special* 240 Thrones
* Called Shots to Head only, subsequent attacks at +30; may cause Wounds or 1/2 value in Fatigue
- Ah, the garrotte, a classic; and a mono'd edge brings it into the 41st millenium. You want to take out a target without killing them or alerting others? This is how a real assassin does it.

Tox-Delivery Upgrade
Info: Exterior of blade etched with indentations, into which toxins can be released via button on the hilt
Ex: Melee weapon can dispense toxin on attack, free action to 'prime' dose; can hold X doses
- It's been gone over before, but there are many ways to put this into action. Variety is the spice of life.

Vibro-blade / "Moritat Mackimesser-Pattern Vibro-Cell"
Info: Small mechanism causes melee weapon blade to vibrate at high-frequency when activated, increasing cutting power
Ex: Penetration +2; Double weapon's penetration if 2+ DoS on attack roll (Razor Sharp {DW})
* Power source can remain active for up to 5 minutes, requiring recharging once expended (takes 8 hours)
Cost: - / ? (Can only be procured via Moritat cell or closely-aligned group)
Fluff: Small trinkets, typically built to resemble a stylized Aquilla or the symbol of an individual Moritat cell, these devices are traditionally bestowed upon those members of the Cult who survive long enough to achieve the revered rank of 'Reaper' within a Cell.
-
The modern incarnations, assembled on the Forge world of Mackimesser, are built by a small cadre of Adeptus Mechanicus tech-priests known as the Keepers of Bladesong - who aligned themselves with the Moritat Death Cult at some point in the distant past for reasons unknown - utilizing highly-restricted design specs recovered by Cult agents over a 1,000 years ago. Rumor speaks of an ancient pact made between the two
Cults ages ago, the Moritat offering their martial service in exchange for assistance and secrecy on behalf of the tech-priests in their efforts to manufacture these and other Cult-specific devices.
-
The device can be easily affixed to most bladed Imperial melee weapons, activation usually accomplished by
pressing a small button-attachment that clips to the weapon's hilt; however, more recent versions have
been known to incorporate voice-recognition technology, allowing activation by code-word (usually a
phrase in the secret tongue of the Moritat). When affixed to an appropriate weapon, activation of a
vibro-cell causes the weapon's blade to vibrate at extremely high-frequency, producing a faint
humming sound and allowing the blade to effortlessly shear through heavy armour.

- This is the only one of these upgrades I've bothered to put some fluff-thought into thus far, as its quite powerful and I think it'll need some work still. Nonetheless, there is grounds for this type of technology to exist in 40k and, if viewed as the product of an ancient and mystical gift from the Emperor (as the Moritat see it, at least), makes sense for them to use. Injecting some connection to a possibly-tainted-or-at-least-questionable sect of the Ad-mech adds some flavor I think, and explains how the rather-primitive Moritat would gain access to something like this. Still needs some work - not to mention a price!

Mercurial Chamber
Info: Interior of blade contains a minute hollow filled with high-density liquid-metal alloy, augmenting blows
Ex: Damagen +2; Ignore number of levels of Unnatural Toughness equal to X (Felling {DW})

- Again, there is grounds for this type of tech to exist in 40k, it just hasn't been written up as an upgrade option. Also like the vibro-cell, it still needs some time on the drawing board.

I've also been fooling around with the idea of some sort of short-range ballistic options, the most notable options coming to mind being the blade launching bracer in Batman Begins and the shoulder-mounted needle-firing weapons seen in the first Iron Man movie. A more primitive version of this - not easily reloaded and meant primarily as a surprise/alternative means of attack - could show promise.

One way to improve melee combatant viability is to implement the Black Crusade firing and melee rules. Full auto: -10, 1 hit per dos, SA: +0, 1 hit per 2 dos, single shot: +10, 1 hit. Then apply the same with Lightning Attack, Swift Attack, and Single Attack, respectively. Then you've got moritat who can use their lauded melee skill to make flurries of assaults and start dealing the kind of damage the other party members can with their full auto guns.

As a side note: Moritat are hunters, as mentioned above. If your player wants to charge the line, they should have built a melee guardsman. Assassins are designed to dart, duck, and roll from pillar to shadow to cover, throw a handful of choking dust into someone's eyes before gutting his fellow. They fight like batman in the Dark Knight when he attacks that docks, not like Orlando Bloom in Kingdom of Heaven.