Hi.

I'm going again to exploit your patience. Please don't hate me There are some games where certain situations arise and we are not 100% sure of what has to be done. Experience taught me that it's better to ask, even silly questions, because often I got surprised by the answer.

I've two or three things to clarify, that go around the Game of Cyvasse and other cards.

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The first one. How is handled precisely an event who contains the keyword "Then"? Especially regarding paying cost and cancel.

Let's assume I've and event that reads: "Kneel a character to stand a character. Then discard a character to kill a character".

Step 1.

- I show the intention of playing this event, check the cost, etc..

- I kneel a character I control (because it's a cost I cannot kneel a character not controlled by me) to pay its cost

- I choose the character I wish to Stand (target)

Step 2.

- Let's assume no one cancel my event

Step 3.

- Effect is updated. Chosen character is successfully knelt. What happens now?

Is the THEN part a passive ability that starts on step 4 and has a nested cicle of steps 1.2.3.4.5.6?

If not, there is no save/cancel opportunity for the THEN part? So, in this example, the character killed by the THEN part cannot be saved because of timing?

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Second example (that depends on question 1):

Andy plays a Game of Cyvasse and successfully kneels the character with higher STR. Then, he try to return Arya Stark to the hand of her controller, Bob. Could Bob play Fear Cuts Deeper Than Sword ("Response: cancel the effects of an event card just played if one of your Stark character is chosen as the ONLY target") ?

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Andy plays a Game of Cyvasse and successfully kneels the character with higher STR. Then, he try to return Arya Stark to the hand of her controller, Bob. Arya has the attachment Guard Dog ("Attached character cannot be chosen as the only target of an event card). Is Arya an eligible target? Has Game of Cyvasse only one target or also character chosen by players to be knelt are considered targets of the GoC event?

Thanks!

Don't worry, no one hates anyone who has questions about the game.

I wish I could delve into the answers you seek right now, but lunch is here. :-)

Bomb said:

Ikaros said:

Once you determine that the part before the "then" is officially successful in Step 3, the "then" effect initiates and resolves within Step 3. As such, there is no opportunity to cancel just the "then" part of an effect (and a cancel that is only applicable to the "then" part cannot be used for the whole effect; so, for example, an effect that says "then, draw a card" cannot be canceled by something like Wildling Wisewoman who says "cancel an effect that would let a player draw a card"). However, the FAQ creates a special opportunity to save from the "then" part of an effect.

And again, all of this happens in Step 3.

Don't try to figure it out in and plug it in to the flowcharts in the FAQ. It can't be done.

Ikaros said:

First, as outlined above, you do not have the opportunity in the timing structure to cancel just the "then" part of the effect because it initiates after the "save" opportunity. You can only cancel the entire event, or nothing.

Second, notice that the characters with intrigue icons knelt before the "then" are chosen as targets and knelt as effects of the event card. They are not knelt as costs. You do not kneel the characters to do anything. You play the event, then choose and kneel the characters. As such, the character bounced back to hand will never be the "only" target of the event - you have to count the characters that were knelt before the "then," too.

Ikaros said:

However, note that if, in either of your examples, Arya had a dupe on her, you could discard the dupe to save her from being returned to hand by the "then" part of the effect because the FAQ does allow a special opportunity (outside the normal timing structure) to save from the "then" parts of effects.