While the minotaurs only get a page, and nothing about a lot of Terminator Armor, they come off as right jerks. Hate for any non-Deathwatch or Minotaur Astartes. Honestly, not even good PC options IMHO. Does mention they are willing to go after other chapters though… then again, the Crimson Fists are said to have taken part in two Chapter Attacks. So hardly original. (Stupid High Lords seem to have forgotten the bloody point of the Space Wolves!)

The Red Scorpions? I think your issue a bit moot after this. It isn't so much they were lost in the Warp as they were cut off, and found a homeworld that they started to recruit from and could thus hold off. Especially with their extra effort to hold off bad 'stuff' in their gene seed. Like… any impurities is a death sentence style thing.

And it says the 'lost contact for centuries' thing isn't even that uncommon for Marine Chapters. It DOES happen. Especially with Crusading Chapters. the Marines Errant are often above 1000 marines simply because a company is missing for decades or centuries. They finish replacing only for the original to finally turn back up.

Well the Minotaurs are at least better than the Consecrators, known only for having older (and there fore better) gear. Their conections with the high lords aren't that surprising. If the Emperor envisiged 1 of the 20 legions was there to take any of the others out then youd need 50 chapters for the same effect.

And yes, it sounds like they've had plenty of background put into the Scorpions. You hear that some times companies are lost in the warp, or elsewhere for ages, but I can't think of any major ones.

Dulahan said:

I always figured that the High Lords wanted Chapters who could take on other Space Marines and who were loyal to them and didn't ask questions, as opposed to the more anarchistic Space Wolves who, at least to me, don't seem like the blindly obedient types that the High Lords probably favors.

That's probably because the Space Wolves weren't the executioners, Russ was. And they only listened to the All-Father. So no Emperor telling them to do it, they tell the High Lords to piss off.

I feel the Minotaurs quality weapons and armour is justified. They're effectively the High Lord's bouncers and hired muscle. They do the dirty work and in return are rewarded for it. However, I feel their position is different from other chapters who have fought their own brothers, such as the crimson fists, in that they don't treat their brothers with any honor. They absolutely devastate them, rarely offer a chance for surrender, and confiscate any relics for their own vaults. This was shown in their destruction of the Inceptors and solidified their reputation with the majority of ultramarine core successors. So while they might have first dibs of all the neat armaments coming out of Mars, they've got a little under half of all their brethren who despise them with a passion. Also, I have to agree that the Space Wolf legion was loyal to the Emperor, not the High Lords, and the chapter followed in those footsteps. Thus they needed a new chapter who would do what they asked, regardless of any honor or morals behind it.

Very pleased with the book. Glad to see they went with the current color scheme for the Raptors instead of the one for the Raptor Legion. The only minor quibble I have is that the Raptors don't get access to the Guerrilla Training talent in First Foundings.

Very much worth the purchase. Now I am just waiting for Only War so I can have my Catachan Jungle Fighters followers for my Raptor.

Starglyte said:

Raptors are very strong without Guerilla Training (which the Talent's text indicates was developed after the Raptors split off from the Raven Guard). Raptors can still purchase Concealment and Silent Move advances for very cheap, and they will be plenty stealthy operating at the ranges they prefer rather than trying to sneak in close. The Raptors get one of the best (if not THE best) chapter trapping, and - assuming that their Solo Mode Ability is Passive - they are likely to be really accurate with single shots.

HappyDaze said:

I was just expecting them to have access to the talent, not too heartbroken about it. But you made me go back and check the Raven Guard's chapter advances and they do pay more for Stealth than the Raptors, which surprised me. Be as that may, I still think the book was a great purchase. Between the Raptors, Raven Guard, and the Blood Ravens, I am set chapter wise for Deathwatch. Good times.

I'm kinda glad myself.

Those Talents are there to represent the things that the Chapter is especially reknowned and focused on. They're a Raven Guard successor sure, but I'd rather see them have a Talent of their own, even if Guerilla Warfare isn't likely to travel far (or at least it shouldn't, the point of them being Talents appears it was to give the respective Chapters something special that tied in with their fluff, without being too cumbersome to include).

What I find really too bad is the whole jungle warfare aspect of the Raptors is too late in the timeline too, since I honestly think jungle warfare specialists would have been an excellent niche to bring along to the game. Sure, it's not something that would show up all the time, but neither is riding around on a bike.

I was sold immediately when I heard that the Flesh Tearers were one of the featured Chapters. That was all I wanted. The Carcharodons will be pretty cool too.

I was pretty confused about the Blood ravens. I thought that they were not suppost to know who their Primarch was. In Dawn of War 2, Avetus was always complaining about that. How can a 2nd founding chapter not know who their Primarch was?

Minotaurs will also be cool to read about. I heard that they got a bit of a write up.

peterstepon said:

10,000 years is a hell of a long time.

I'm just a bit disappointed at Novamarines getting a full write up. To me they skew super close to baseline Ultramarines, except oh they really hate Orks and oh they are super-cereal about the Codex. Howling Griffons are different enough to be really interesting, for example. I'd have preferred a more out-there Smurf successor to get the full write up…Silver Skulls and Doom Eagles were RIGHT THERE after all.

Feel the same way about Crimson Fists (I"d have preferred Excoriators), but they are pretty popular and have some interesting solo characters in the wargame at least.

Popularity is a double-edged sword, in that space is used on awesome stuff that we might not really need. Like Deathwing and Swordbrother are both awesome, I'm sure (guessing on the last one), but I still have to say that they weren't really necessary in light of the First Company specialty. But the Dark Angels and Black Templars are fan favourites, so they get some extra goodies (yeah yeah, the Deathwing use Terminator Armour ALL the time, instead of just MOST of the time, like everyone else…)

Sword Brethren I can understand easily. They're the equivalent to the First Company and other Chapters have gotten First Company-equivalent ranks (maybe just the Deathwing and Honour Guard actually).

Emperor's Champion I am thrilled about, just don't know how well it fits in Deathwatch to be honest. I could see a Black Templar's Watch-Captain just go "erm…no" when presented with some alleged vision before a battle and demands to wield super wargear. This coming from a huge BTs fan. In fact when I mentioned EC to my players, the most vocal response was "that is very Black Templar, but it may just be SO Black Templar that it doesn't work in the Deathwatch."

Kshatriya said:

Captain Cortez is wounded by this statement. He will ignore it, like every other wound, but he's hurt nonetheless.

professor_kylan said:

Who do you think I was referring to?!

Yeah, I'm a BIG fan of the Raptors after their writeup. The abilities are just icing on the cake.

For that matter, I was dubious about the Car… Space Sharks. But dang, they got a REALLY cool write up. Admittedly, almost Legion of the Damned. But I love their modus operandi…

Darn, Raven Guard gets some cool successors!

So, confirmation that Nisk Rawn-Thawll is still somewhere in the galaxy. His name is part of the title of the Mentors relic included in the Reliquarium chapter. Maybe some new or at least re-confirmed info on the Mentors/Mentor Legion will pop up somewhere at some point in some GW property?

I refuse to call them Space Sharks. Refuse.

Why? Space Sharks is an awesome name. No less dumb than Space Wolves.

Some of the new fluff for the Chacarachadondinssons (or whatever FW changed their name to) is dumb though… Water filled torpedoes? Derp…

Its only natural that the coolest first founding chapter would have the best successors.

borithan said:

Is Games Workshop -seriously- having them have stupid stuff like that?

Because the FFG version in this is nothing aquatic based at all… unless there was a skill or talent in their chapter table I missed.

Dulahan said:

Der obviously, how would sharks survive inside otherwise?

borithan said:

Space Sharks reminds me too much of Street Sharks, which is not the image or the gravitas I want to have for Space Marines. Also FFG didn't change the name to Carcharodons (seriously, it's not that hard). That's the name from Imperial Armor.

Water torpedoes? Hahaha ugh.

I can't find the source for this water-filled torpedo. All I found was a joke model of a Carcharodon riding a flying shark that somebody brought to Warhammer World for the lulz.

But the Carcharodons are totally Jawesome! Ahaha, nostalgia.