It was Forge World (FW) not Fantasy Flight (FFG) who changed the name to Charachadons (or whatever). Now, I may have been misinformed, but I am sure they published something about the Space Sharks firing water filled boarding torpedoes at enemy ships, partially flooding the interior so that defenders would be impeded. The Space Sharks, being trained for fighting in these conditions, therefore had the upper hand.

Space Sharks riding flying sharks, on the other hand, was just an awesome parody a few people have done of the idiocy that was Space Wolves riding actual wolves.

I will accept I may have been misinformed, or it may be the case that element of the background has been quietly filed away somewhere.

One thing that the chapter master certainly has which is ridiculous: LIGHTNING CLAW CHAINFIST PALMS!

Google "Carcharodon", and you'll realize why that's not a random 'name change'. Besides, Carcharodon Astra is specifically their High-Gothic name, because they have a thing for speaking only High Gothic, and Space Sharks is their Low Gothic name. Spoiler: Carcharodon Astra is basically "Space Sharks" in Latin.

About Tyberos, Powerfists with chain blades attached are already a STANDARD thing, and Power Fists with integrated bolters have precedent, and Huron Blackheart's bionic hand has a Heavy Flamer in the center. I don't see why Lightning claws with a chain blade are so out of the question. In fact, that makes more sense than a Chainfist, attaching a teary-swingy thing to another teary-swingy thing, as opposed to strapping a teary-swingy thing to a smashy-punchy thing. These complaints are immaterial and baseless.

And even if they DO have water-filled torpedoes…why not? That WOULD be kind of unexpected when it hit your ship and could probably deaden the force of your opening volley as the torpedo blows open, and is no more thematically out there than, ya know, the guys who ride wolves, and actually attach wolf pelts to their Dreadnoughts.

Yeah, the water filled boarding torpedo thing is actually a really clever thing when you think of it. The initial charge from the torpedo is gonna be one of the hardest things if under fire, but Astartes have Magnetic boots and such, and if it sweeps away some defenders and shorts some defenses… Yeah, not a bad idea at all.

To expand on their 'unique' Crusader pattern. Apparently they are what's called a "Nomadic-Predation" chapter. They fly around kicking butt and using the resources from a slaughtered place to keep going.

One thing this does include (though this is true to an extent for all the mobile chapters) is that induction requires much greater hypno indoctrination, as the initiates may include former enemies.

water filled boarding torpedoes are worthless. they are not going to hold enough water to kpartially floodk anything and the added mass means they would accelerate slower than usual. if the torp doesnt go fast enough to get to the ship quickly then its a total waste. sorry about punctuatio, posting from phone

Captain Ventris said:

Oh, I know chainfists exist, but the utter over the top-ness of the weapon is what makes it a bit stupid… and that the chainblades are on his palms. On the chainfist the chain is largely unused and it is preserved for use against large, comparitavle slow moving targets. With the Chapter Master it looks like he should go around trying to paw everything.

I know there are Space Marines that ride wolves. I ignore them, as the idea is just stupid (the list of things that don't exist in my version of 40k are growing… Thubnderwolf cavalry is one of them). The water filled torpedos I would actually regard as less stupid. but I still think it is dumb.

Okay, I understand the concerns, now. And yes, the water-filled torpedos would be silly… if someone, somewhere, could actually find the citation about them. They just aren't AS silly as riding wolves. Although…dang, those are big wolves.

I don't see Tyberos pawing at things like doofus. Maybe slashing against a large target, or stabbing someone like Woverine with his lightning claws, he gets some extra people-chunks out of the attack. Also, grappling with him is a terrible idea, and parrying a downward swing from a chain weapon is described as being a fun experience that throws a mundane weapon out of your hand. The blades might go all the way down his palms just in case, for the corner cases…also because they have to connect to a power supply somewhere in there. Anyway, laying your hand against the inside of something's stomach is a handy way to get out in this case.

Dulahan said:

That's not a particularly unusual practice. I'm fairly certain that's exactly what the Black Templars do already.

Kshatriya said:

Hence why I said it's true for all mobile chapters.

HappyDaze said:

The text of Guerilla Training says nothing of it happening after the Second Founding. It just mentions the Drop Site Massacre, which happened near the beginning of the decade-long war that preceded the Second Founding. I for one wouldn't have too much trouble granting a Raptor player the Guerilla Training talent as an elite advance for, say, 1,000 XP.

Always been fine with the wolf cavalry. They're bigger than horses, and the Space Wolves often bionically enhance them. Plus they're from a Death World (even though everyone knows there are no wolves on Fenris).

Besides, when people scoff at cavalry, or some of the other seemingly anachronistic elements of 40K, they're forgetting that a lot of the modes and methods of modern warfare are thanks much to equally modern infastructure. Airfields and highways don't just appear on their own.

THe reason they are stupid is because someone went "Wait, these guys are Space Wolves right? You know what would be awesome? They should ride WOLVES."

The proper response should have been "Err… what? That's dumb. That's the kind of logic 7 year olds use. We don't need to go overboard with the Wolf theme. They already wear wolf pelts, have wolf pets, have wolves in their title, iconography and wolf themes in their unit titles and personal names. They are meant to be Space Marines as well. Anyway, wolves are not exactly great riding animals, especially when you consider how much Marines weigh."

Instead someone went "YEAH, that'd be AWESUM! You know what, we should extend this AWESUM name explosion to the Blood Angels as well and name everything after blood… shame you can't ride blood too."

My problem is not with the idea of cavalry. I like the idea of rough riders (even if the mongol ones are awful models), even if they make no logical sense (mounted infantry, yes, that could be useful… actual cavalry that ride at people with lances? That's been an awful idea since breech loading rifles were introduced).

Thunderwolf cavalry are everything I want out of 40k.

40k is the kind of place where people travel interstellar distances in miles long starships in order to hit each other with chainsaw swords. And I like that.

The fact that the Wolves and the Blood Angels have gotten so… wolfy and bloody, for lack of better terms, makes me fear for what will happen to my beloved Dark Angels when they get their 6th Edition Codex. I mean, they've already got Deathwing, Ravenwing, and their trademark plasma weapons, but Emperor help me, if we see some new inner organization called the Darkwing or some shenanigans like that…

I am the terror that flaps in the night

DW in DW. Meta.

I'd brace yourself for Darkswords, perhaps dark hammers (for termies) maybe dark shields and dark armour.

For me, vis a vie Thunderwolves, it's not just the flogging of the dead wolf horse, and it's not just the gamieness of it (yeah it would be nice if assault marines with storm shields had beast speeds but common, 4/5s of the model is NOT wearing power-armour and you certanly can't hide it behind or a stormshield, or in fact get standard force fields to cover it, at least bikes look armoured and rough riders have the decency to be incredibly fragile). But for me it's chain of thought at some point orks riding giant pigs was dropped for silliness/army list space, but immediately used it bulk out the Space Wolves range. The models aren't bad and all, and I can certainly understand that they are following the money, I can't blame them for that.

Oh, on the subject, Ravenwing jetbikes will be back next codex. Probably a Ravenwing storm eagle / storm raven / landspeeder varient.

Can anyone explain the new chapter creation system? How does it mesh, if at all, with the rules in RoB?

Vergaul said:

It isn't a chapter creation system at all. There's a general Advance Scheme, Solo/Squad Abilities, Demeanors, and Psychic Abilities that are only applicable for Codex Chapters. A number of Codex Chapters, something like a dozen or more I think, are listed with their Trait bonuses. You can use other Chapters not included if they are Codex Chapters, but you would need to supply their Trait bonuses.

Gaire said:

Doubt it, as they haven't existed since 1st edition, but hey…

ACMS Game Club said:

This.

That being said in combination with the Create A Chapter rules, it DOES leave a lot more options if you ask me. Especially with all the other new chapters.

borithan said:

A similar argument could have been made for the jokaero (the actual race, not just their devices) and yet now we have them out on the field.

Enh, lay off the thunderwolves, the Sons of Russ have been bringing Fenrisian wolves to war for ages, it's perfectly cromulent that if there are bigger, meaner ones than that, they might ride them to war as well.

I dunno, man. Riding around on giant wolves is kinda silly. I've always much preferred the "space viking" angle on the Sons of Russ over the "wolf wolf wolfy wolf wolf" angle.

Is it just the riding that you don't like? How about if the thunderwolf was a unit upgrade for Fenrisian wolves, or just a follower for a wolf lord?

Also, Norse mythology is chock full o' wolves trying to get loose and chomp everything. If fits more than one might think.