Hi everyone,

I recently bought Arkham Horror and my friend and I have fallen in love with the game. After many games of missing a rule here or there we feel we are finally keeping track of everything. As we have worked on learning and refining our understanding of the rules, we have encountered 2 situations which we feel need further clarification. I have read through the rulebook and FAQ with a fine tooth comb and have yet to find an acceptable resolution to these two situations. Any input is greatly appreciated.

1) Gates opening on Investigators during Arkham Encounters

The rules state that when a gate opens at a location where an investigator is during the Mythos phase, the investigator is automatically drawn through the gate and delayed. I understand that the delay is meant to show that during the next movement phase, the investigator can only "stand up", thus ensuring that being drawn through a gate this way still forces the investigator to have an Other World encounter in each part of the other world, for a total of 2.

The rules also state that when an encounter calls for "A gate and a monster appear", the gate appears first, the investigator is drawn through, and then the monster appears. They go on to state that the investigator is then delayed in the other world. What does not make sense to me is that the investigator is drawn through during Arkham Encounters, then would have an encounter in that Other World during Other World Encounters, but because they are delayed, the next turn's movement phase allows them to "stand up", leading to another Other World Encounters phase in the first half of the other world.

Is it intended for an Arkham Encounter resulting in a gate to cause the investigator to spend 3 turns in the Other World? If not, why is the investigator delayed? Is there something I am missing?

2) Environments: Sunny and Clear, Blackest Night

These 2 environment cards affect sneak and will checks in Arkham. Because these list Sneak and Will specifically, it seems these would not apply to Evade and Horror checks, as these are Special Checks that simply use those stats as a base. The special checks take into account bonuses to the base stats, but the wording of the environments is not a bonus to these stats, but a bonus to checks on those stats. By this wording, it seems it would only apply to Sneak or Will checks that are called upon via cards such as location encounters or some investigator cards. We just wanted to clarify if this is the case, because thematically it seems to make sense that you could evade monsters better in the dark, and that things would be less horrifying on a clear day.

Thank you so much for any feedback, we love the game and want to play it to the fullest, which means fully understanding and embracing the rule and system framework!

Hm, I'm the first one. Unusual. Well, I'll give it a shot:

1. Yes, if you are sucked through a gate during the Arkham Encounters phase, you are delayed and have a total of three Other World encounters before returning to Arkham. I'm assuming the designers thought that a) investigators should not have a chance to get through an Other World with only one encounter (under normal circumstances, anyway) and b) rules such as this one should apply in all circumstances. Thus, you have a rule designed to balance out one situation which unbalances another situation in the opposite direction. Again, that's just my hypothesis on why the rules are the way they are.

2. Any time you gain a bonus or penalty to Fight, Will, or Sneak checks, the bonus also applies to Combat, Horror, or Evade checks, respectively. This is because the "specialty" checks are not a separate kind of check altogether, but a sub-category of their "parent" checks. In other words, all Combat checks are Fight checks, but not all Fight checks are Combat checks (and so on for the rest of them).

Interesting, I read the rules differently regarding the second situation.

By my reading, Combat checks are not Fight checks, they use Fight as a base stat, and bonuses to the "stat" itself apply to those checks. For instance, the skill Fight adds "+1 Fight" to the base stat, adding an extra die to combat checks, but the special rule related to getting an extra die when spending a clue token on a fight check would not apply to a combat check, because it is a Combat check (listed in the rules separately from skill checks as a special check), not a fight check.

The wording on the environment card is +1 to Sneak checks, not +1 Sneak.

I may be incorrect in my interpretation, but it seemed to me the designers have been very specific on these differences throughout the game, thus the source of my confusion. Can anyone else corroborate that a Combat check is a Fight check? Evade check a Sneak check? for purposes of rule wording.

Yeah, Walk's way is how I've always read it. From the rules (emphasis added):

greetings

1) Yes, it is intended for you to have 3 encounters if drawn through a gate opening in Arkham Encounters, but NOT when drawn through in the Mythos.

2) There is a veterans forum mantra from a long devoured investigator of these parts: "Special checks are skill checks but skill checks are not special checks". So, the Environments you mention influence the difficulty of a skill check, so they will affect special checks too. Had they affected Evade or Horror, that would be all they affected.

1) Think of it this way instead: an Investigator generally gets 1 Encounter every turn. But sometimes an Encounter tells them to go somewhere else to have an Encounter. These aren't really Encounters, they're just Relocations to the "actual" Encounter. So when you pop a Gate open underneath you during the Arkham Encounter Phase, you're just being moved offworld for your Encounter that turn. And then after that, you'll have your required two Other World Encounters, for a total of three.

When you think of it, it makes perfect sense thematically. A gate that opens on an investigator causes him to become delayed,disoriented, regardless of the phase in which he was pulled through. The investigator having three encounters is simply a consequence of him being pulled in the third phase(Arkham Encounters).

I came to this forum, hoping to find an official clarification to this very question (#1).

With all due respect, I am going to disagree with all the good people here who feel that the game designers intend that an investigator endure three encounters in an Other World in this situation.

The first FAQ sheet pointed out that "delaying an investigator" was put into the game simply to avoid the situation where an investigator is sucked through a gate during the Mythos Phase. Because of the strict order of the game sequence, this would allow said investigator to MOVE to the second OW location and then have his first and only OW encounter phase. Next turn he would return to Arkham. The "delay" rule was put into the game to insure that the investigator would have two OW encounter phases before returning to Arkham.

But in the situation stated in question #1, the gate is opening during the Arkham Encounter Phase. Any investigator going through the gate would immediately have his first OW encounter in the very next phase of the game - the OW Encounter Phase. The next turn he would move to the second location space in the OW, and in the next OW Encounter Phase he would have his second encounter. Next game turn he would return to Arkham. (All this based on the assumption that nothing horrible happens during said encounters.)

Look at it this way. Instead of the gate opening up on the investigator, the investigator goes into the gate. It's the same thing as if a player moved into a location that has an open gate. The player encounters the gate during the Arkham Encounter phase and is transported through the gate to the appropriate OW location. There he will (barring bad luck) have two OW encounters and then return to Arkham.

A few people have tried to justify the forced 3 OW encounters by saying that having a gate open around the investigator is, somehow, more psychologically traumatic and therefore it's "obvious" that you are supposed to have 3 encounters instead of two. That makes no sense game wise. Why should a gate opening around an investigator during the Arkham Encounter Phase be any more traumatizing that a gate opening around an investigator during the Mythos Phase? It's the SAME PHENOMENON taking place in two different phases of the game! Yet the former case would force three encounters while the latter only two. Again, game wise, this is nonsense.

I believe the rule Gate opening on Investigators during Arkham Encounters is wrongly worded. I believe the words "and delayed" are an unfortunately erroneous addition here. They should be removed. This brings back the "standard" expectation of two-turns of encounters in an Outer World location no matter in what phase an investigator moves through a gate.

Has Kevin Wilson ever made an official ruling on this? I have looked as a number of his answers here on the forum, but I never saw this issue addressed. I would really appreciate his input on this.

No official clarification from Kevin Wilson is needed here. The answer is in the rulebooks. In the most recently published rules clarification (Innsmouth Horror), on p. 11, it says, "If an investigator is drawn through a gate that appears as a result of an encounter (such as one that reads, "A gate appears!" or "A gate and a monster appear!"), then he is delayed."

Then, just as you say,

Any investigator going through the gate would immediately have his first OW encounter in the very next phase of the game - the OW Encounter Phase. The next turn he would move to the second location space in the OW, and in the next OW Encounter Phase he would have his second encounter. Next game turn he would return to Arkham. (All this based on the assumption that nothing horrible happens during said encounters.)

Except, in this case, the investigator is delayed. So, during his Arkham Encounter he is sucked through the gate and delayed. Immediately after being sucked through the gate and becoming delayed, he has his Other World Encounter. On his next turn, because he is delayed, he does not move, but, instead, stands up. Well, on this turn, there is an Other World Encounter phase, just as there are on every other turn, so he must have another Other World Encounter in the very same space as his first encounter. Finally, assuming all goes well for this investigator, on his next turn, he moves to the 2nd area of the Other World, and during this Other World Encounter phase, has his 3rd Other World Encounter.

Look at it this way- there are plenty of Other World Encounters in the game that cause the investigator to become delayed while he is in the Other World. This situation is the same as becoming delayed by being sucked through the gate: he will have at least 3 Other World Encounters while in this Other World.

Having a rule that creates a situation where 3 Other World Encounters are given is better than not having a rule creating a situation where you fly through with only 1 encounter.

Thank you. If it's explicitly stated that way in IH (which I haven't yet played) then so be it. I still don't agree with it nor understand why an investigator caught by an open gate in the Arkham Encounter Phase must be penalized more than when caught by a opening gate in the Mythos Phase. I agree that a correction was needed to keep a loophole in the Mythos Phase from allowing an investigator to get through an OW location with only one encounter, but then applying the same rule to the Arkham Encounter Phase unbalanced it in the other direction - 3 vs 2 encounters - for no good game design reason that I can fathom. But, as stated, apparently "them's the rules..."

Thank you so much everyone for the informative replies and discussion, this has been very helpful. I feel I now understand some of those special checks more accurately as a special form of a skill check, so still falling under the umbrella of that skill check when it comes to items, skills, and effects. This makes some of those cards much more meaningful and thematic/atmospheric. I appreciate all the veteran advice, my girlfriend and I are about to begin our 13th play with some new players and we are very pleased to be playing more accurately. This game is incredible, probably my favorite board game (except for Chess and Go ).

Now, where did I leave that strange idol...

I want to thank everyone too, especially Musha. He pointed out the rule in his reply. I then looked it up in the rules downloads on this site. What he didn't do was quote the ENTIRE rule that made it a complete no-brainer:

Gates and Monsters from Encounters

Delay Due To Such Gates: If an investigator is drawn through a gate that appears as a result of an encounter (such as one that reads, "A gate appears!" or "A gate and a monster appear!") , then he is delayed, JUST AS IF HE HAD BEEN DRAWN THROUGH A GATE IN THE MYTHOS PHASE. (emphasis mine)

The last phrase of that statement is what I was wanting to see! No ambiguity after that reading! I might not like it (as I said before), but now I KNOW how it's to be played. :-)