It goes off after the when revealed plot effects or before? Looking at the timing charts it would appear that it would happen in step 4 of the Framework Action Window, whereas the When Revealed effects happen during step 1.

So, there's this section in the FAQ (that has been there for at least two years, buddy... ) that reads:

"(2.2) Plot Effect Resolution

Continuous or constant plot effects take effect immediately and simultaneously, as soon as the plot cards are revealed. The first player determines the order in which all "when revealed" plot effects are resolved. "When revealed" plot effects are essentially self-referential passive effects that initiate in response to the revealing of the plot card with the "when revealed" effect. They are resolved (in the order determined by the first player) during step 4 of the action window in which the plot card was revealed. All "when revealed" plot effects must resolve before any other passive effects initiated by the revealing of a plot card(s) are resolved."

The last two sentences of that FAQ entry answer your questions about Bay of Ice. Bay of Ice is a passive effect to plots being revealed, so it initiates in Step 4. "When revealed" plots happen in Step 4, too, but by rule, all "when revealed" plot effects must resolve before any other passives to revealing plots, etc., are resolved.

Although if one wanted to unnecessarily complicate things, one could point out the fact that, in direct contradiction to the passage quoted by ktom, the plot phase flow chart on p.19 of the FAQ has When revealed... effects happen as a framework event, not a passive effect. This is but an academic distinction, though - in practice it never makes any difference at all.

@staton - even if one were to follow the flow chart over §2.2, When revealed effects would happen in step 3, not step 1. ~No effects ever happen in step 1, n00b

lol touche on that one.

Ratatoskr said:

Does anyone remember when this game used to be simple?

This is one topic that is a sore spot for me because I use Bay of Ice (correctly) A LOT. I have it in almost all of my decks. My opponents always want to draw the Bay of Ice card A) Before deciding FP and B) Prior to resolving the 'when revealeds'. When I point out that the card is drawn after both of those things, and request that they replace the card and shuffle because that card shouldn't help them make those two decisions, I always get:

"NO DUDE YOU'RE WRONG!!!! RAGE!!!! IT'S A PASSIVE TO COUNTING INITIATIVE DUMMY LOLzzzz HAHA YOU DON'T EVEN KNWO THE RULES!!!! RAWR!!!!"

Trying to explain this to a person who has english as a second language, that even though it is a passive to the initiative count, that it happens afterwards of the when revealeds, I just want to hang myself.

dcdennis said:

And having to do it over OCTGN chat can't make it any easier. Being a person who has English as a second language, I feel for you.

I'm glad not to have met any such people on OCTGN yet... I wouldn't replay with them (because of rudeness). Playing over a voice chat might help, but mostly with someone you share a language with, though.

So I think it's the same with Golden Tooth Mines and when revealed, like, for example, Rule By Decree. Rule By Decree's when reveal effect will always resolve before the Golden Tooth's draw, right (in case both players have the same numeber of cards in hand)?

And what does happen if the when revealed effect is that of "Search and Detain"?

Imagine my opponent reveals this plot, I win initiative and I decide to be the first player. I have only one bay of ice in play and he decides to return that location to my hand. Can I draw the extra card? I think yes because Bay of Ice goes moribound, but it is still in play when its passive resolves.

thorin_81 said:

That's right!

thorin_81 said:

Right again!