My opponent discards a Narrow Sea, I play seasick to cacnel it. Can he use said sea to pay the 1 influence cost of seasick?

Sure he can. This is standard moribund stuff. Read up on it in the FAQ.

Yeah that's what I thought. Just wanted clarification. Thanks

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude then. Was in a hurry.

Here goes:

Step 1: Player Action is initiated. You state your intention to trigger the Sea's ability. You discard the Sea to pay the cost of the ability. It enters a moribund:discard state, but remains physically on the table.

Step 2: You opponent triggers Seasick's Response to cancel the effects of the Sea. At this point you kneel the moribund, but physically on the table, Sea for its Influence in order to invalidate Seasick's effect.

Step 3: Since it has not been cancelled, the effect of the Sea is resolved. A lasting effect is created that reduces the cost of the next House X or House Y character you play this phase by 2.

Step 4: Passive effects resolve, though there probably aren't any.

Step 5: Normal (i.e. non-cancel) Responses could be triggered, for example "After a card leaves play..." type Responses. Seems unlikely any will, though.

Step 6: End of Action. The two Moribund cards (the Sea and Seasick) leave play and are physically placed on the discard pile.

Your opponent has the chance to initiate an Action.

Lol, it's all good bro. Just needed a simple yes/no really. Your first answer was plenty detailed enough.

widowmaker93 said:

Yeah, wish I had seen your answer above sooner. There I was, all eaten up inside by guilt over my conduct unbecoming a member of the Rules board and general rudeness, and I decided to type up an extra nice answer, with flowers and all, and then you don't even want it.

Well, maybe some newbie will learn something from it.

Err...

I actually think Ratatoskr made a little inaccuracy.

Sea do not become moribund on step 1. It becomes moribund on step 3. Save/cancel have always the option to prevent a card to go into moribund state.

Ikaros said:

Sea locations being discarded to use their ability is a cost. This is done during Step 1. You cannot save cards from being removed from play if they are removed from play to pay for a cost. Even if you could, saving the card would mean you didn't pay the cost successfully, so it would be pointless from the getgo. That being said, canceling the ability still means all costs are paid, so the Sea location would still get discarded if the effect was canceled.

@ratoskar - i appreciate the answer. I didn't find your first one rude at all. No worries!

So now we have conflicting answers. I was originally thinking it would be like when someone plays To be a Dragon and stands the character as a cost, if the event is cancelled the character still gets to stand.

The answers don't conflict.

In the "To Be a..." situation, yes, if the event is canceled, the character still stands. That is because standing the character is a cost for those events, not an effect. Costs are still paid when the effect is canceled.

If you cancel a Sea, discarding the card is part of cost of its reducing effect. If you cancel the Sea, the effect (reducing the next character by 2) doesn't happen, but the cost (discarding the location) does. So canceling a Sea still results in the location being discarded.

The "conflict" was in when the location becomes moribund, not what the end result of the situation (ie, the cost is still paid) was.

Cards that leave play as a cost do so (and become moribund) in Step 1, not Step 3. If they did not become moribund until Step 3, that would mean the cost was not paid until Step 3. Bomb's point (and while it's true, it's something people have a hard time with) is that when a card leaves play as a cost in Step 1, it is too late to save them from leaving play in Step 2 because they are already moribund - and saves need to happen before the card you want to save becomes moribund.

Bomb said:

Interesting. I always used to play it the other way. I remember at least two examples at my metagame where things were handled vice-versa.

Example 1:

I have Rhaenys's Hill, "Any phase: kneel and discard Rhaenys's Hill from play to put [bla bla bla]". When I activated it, an opponent saved my own location to prevent the cost to be paid, and thus resolve its effects. Was that illegal?

Example 2:

Army of the Drowned: "Response: kneel 1 influence to save Army of the Drowned from being killed or discarded. If Army of the Drowned has already been saved this phase, it claims 3 power."

Theon Greyjoy agenda which delete all "cannot be saved" texts.

My Life for Conquest (event): "Marshalling: kill a Greyjoy character you control to return My Life for Conquest from your dead pile to your hand"

An opponent used to pay the cost of My Life For Conquest with the Army of the Drowned, save the Army so the event stays in the dead pile, then activate the event again and again, to trigger Army response multiple times. Was it all wrong?

Anyway

Where I can find decent ruling for cost? You know.. Information about what is exactly is a cost, the fact that you can pay costs only with cards you control, this latest new thing that "killing for a cost cannot be saved"...

Thank you very much.

Ikaros said:

Ikaros said:

Ikaros said:

Ok, nice discovery!

Sorry Ratatoskr for wrongly correcting you

Ok, so the answer to my question is that yes, i in fact can cancel a sea with seasick and it can't be used to pay the 1 influence since it was discardrd from play? And he does not get the -2?

widowmaker93 said:

No. Where did you get that idea? My original answer still stands and was never in any doubt. All the discussion that followed was just timing technicalities that didn't really touch upon your question.

To reiterate: Yes, you can use the Influence on the Sea to invalidate Seasick.

I don't know man i just got confused. lol

Just ignore me