richsabre said:

It's OK. He's going to have a threat cost of 41. It's a very balanced card...

... I'll see myself out.

Not taking into account that they rereleased a hero we already have and that they had to so that other cards they designed make sense (I wonder which came first), you really have to admit the sword that was broken is very nicely designed fluff-wise.

I don't think Strider's threat level is a problem for secrecy decks. One problem I faced in many of my games was that the secrecy cards were only available when my threat was already past 20. With Strider's ability the player can collect these cards and play them at a point he needs them. Needful Knowledge could lower the threat even more.

Btw, just run a Théodred/Frodo/Bifur secrecy deck against The Carrock. Lots of allies and "Hail of Stones" = Wow! Next time I will add Grim Resolve to my deck just to kill two trolls in a single round. "Unexpected Strike" is also neat in combat heavy scenarios.

i think the sword is broken....sorry last one i promise.. cant even stand my own humour anymore...im off

Malagrun said:

Now I'm not saying he's a bad card, and I'm not saying they shouldn't make new versions of old heroes. I think you're right that it adds a lot of depth. I'm just surprised it's happened so soon.

richsabre said:

I'd have to say, I'm still up in the air on the Bilbo thing. Re-releasing heroes doesn't add the kind of depth that this game should be working towards, it cuts back on the combinations you can have. You play Bilbo in any of your decks? Not anymore you don't. While the new Lore Aragorn kind of skirts the issue by being 12 threat (2 Aragorns wouldn't be feasible threat wise for a secrecy deck), if they start putting out duplicates of all the heroes they already have, I don't think this is a route FFG should take. It isn't like there's a shortage of characters to choose from...

im not a good enough deck builder to really take into account combos- i usually just make decks with characters i like..so its probably not going to affect me that much

Overall I still think the game is delivering top notch stuff, but like you Rich and many others here, I haven't been satisfied with the last two updates like previous ones. I also think it is a) far too early to spin off a Hobbit "saga" set (even though I love what I have seen thematically so far), and b) It is absolutely too early to release a duplicate hero when there are plenty of others to release for now. I can't stress enough how torn I am with the new updates. I love the art on all the new cards, but I just hope the rules work out without seeming too weird.

although my opinions are a little more controversial, i would have to agree with you on that durin...im rather torn between how cool and sleek it looks and the design aspect that i dont like

A couple of things jumped out at me:

One, the threat of 12 is odd for a secrecy hero. Though I suppose that can be explained as an attempt to balance the card.

Two, given the cards we are seeing, it seems like leadership is a far superior fit than the other spheres because otherwise you miss out on the benefits of Celebrian's Stone and the Sword. Sure, you can add a Song and the Rivendell Minstrel but that just seems to make things more complicated and take away space from other cards. In fact, Theodred is such a much better fit than anyone else, I almost don't see why you would play him with any other hero currently available.

And what is with the mentioning of Boromir as a partner? Certainly not for a secrecy deck!

I don't think he's mentioned as a partner for a Secrecy deck. Aragorn's useful in any deck where your threat might eventually become a problem. Boromir and Frodo each have abilities that can convert stuff to threat levels (actions and wounds, respectively). Aragorn allows you to use them with abandon until the point you use his Refresh ability to drive the threat back down.

.........He lacks the Core Set ability to ready himself, making him the firstDúnedain hero incapable of doing so.........

What´s that supposed to mean....?????

i think they meant leadership- imrahil, the twin etc

EDIT- scrap that- forgot he s a lore guy

I'm not saying that the game is dropping off, I really love it a lot. It has become a huge hobby of mine, and I'd hate to see it drop off. I still think it's a high quality game, I just wish they hadn't gone in this direction. Will I still buy the expansion? Yes. But do I wish they had put out a new hero and not Aragorn? You bet.

Can someone calmly articulate what all the hate is about? FFG is publishing a cooperative Lord of the Rings card game and putting out new quests to play quite regularly, including the Water. In. The. Freaking. Water. How cool is that? Not every hero is going to be one that you (or me) likes. They have to cater to everyone. And so far they're doing an excellent job. If you don't want the new Aragorn, then don't buy the Water in the Water adventure back. But I suspect that most of you will, because you actually like the game. And because the Watcher in the Water is awesome!

conykchameleon said:

I'd be fine with it being a hero "I don't like" I just don't think it's good practice for them to put out a hero that's already out. Especially when you're talking about The Lord of the Rings character list. I have no problem with the game at all, that's not what I'm trying to get across. But when we wait a month to find out who the "new and exciting" hero is only to find it we already have him... it's a letdown. That's all.

I like the new Aragorn. I'm not disappointed at all, and I don't think it's laziness. Most card games seem to have multiple versions of the same character. Like someone else said, it adds depth to that character. And we're still going to be getting many more heroes as the game develops... I don't see what there is to worry about. It's an awesome game! Then again, I'm still new to it (only 4 packs into the Mirkwood cycle), and haven't had time to get bored with the heroes/characters I have. Maybe it would be different if I had more experience... I don't know.

The Bilbo in me is really excited by this. I've found it hard to include the original Aragorn into decks that weren't leadership heavy because I just don't like the combo of his high starting threat and his text being less than useful until you get your resource engine set up. In short, I just didn't see the King of the Free Peoples being wanted everywhere. But I can see all sorts of starting fellowships (sorry, old Decipher game coming back to me) for the Boromir in me to use with this Aragorn precisely because of the ability to see your threat climb up to 45 and go "WAIT!". In short, he's going to be wanted everywhere.

One other thing that I'm thinking of: FFG needs to think long term if they want this game to continue, and I think this card shows that. Based on current patterns, we can expect 8 heroes every cycle. Sure, there's lots of characters that they could choose from, but many people are probably like me. They probably want to play with the 9 of the Fellowship, Bilbo, Faramir, and other big name guys. Mablung, Damrod, Halbarad...sure it'll be nice to see these people. But I want my heroes to be HEROES.

When the original set came out there was talk about including FFG originals such as Thalin as being kind of lame. Sure, the cynical side is that they're stretching out the heroes we want to make more money. But the objective side can admit that maybe saving some of the desired heroes, like Merry, Sam or Pippin, for later can help sell those later items. If getting a new Aragorn in a pack now means that they feel they can save Merry and Pippin to be the two heroes in the next Deluxe Expansion then I'm all for it. They need to sell the Deluxe Expansions so that people can pick and choose their adventure packs in that cycle. I see the Deluxe Expansions as key to the business model, because if you choose to not get one, you're choosing to not get the next 6 released items, either.

In conclusion: Aragorn now, mid-cycle, is probably good timing to save a desired, not yet released, hero or two for the next Deluxe Expansion. And I'll really want to play with this new Aragorn from a deckbuilding perspective, so I'm glad he's coming out now.

Chris51261 said:

I can understand that. I can't understand the 'power creep' comments and the baseless accusing of the designers for being unoriginal. Not targeted at you, obviously.

I would have expected the last two previews a year from now. I don't think they are bad, I just think there are plenty of core elements that need developed before going off in the directions they are and reworking existing heroes. Of course, I also felt that it was too early to start the Secrecy approach. I appreciate that they are looking to keep the game fresh - just would have like to see some fundamentals developed further.

conykchameleon - where did you read hate, complaints about power creep and unoriginality? Other than a few jokes, I missed anything real negative...just surprise and some mild critques.

muemakan said:

They just screwed up, they probably meant Boromir, Imrahil (being also Dunedain although they are actually traited just Gondor in the game) and core Aragorn can all ready. It is a feeble line of thinking as we get Denethor and Beravor who cannot.

To add to the discussion: I am torn, also. While I think it is unnecessary to duplicate this early I like the new version of Aragorn much better. It feels much more accordiing to the story. He is sort of a hidden weapon - most of the game he is clearly not as strong as the guys like Imrahil or Boromir (not thinking the attachments now) but then he can change everything. And the spehre seems more fit - though obviously Aragorn was a great leader (perhaps just not in those years that much). Now to Glorfindel, I hope he is coming in this cycle already.

conykchameleon said:

Hey, everyone gets an opinion right? =) I don't think Loragorn is unoriginal, and I think he does fill a gap the Lore sphere had. I almost think that if this had been a Tactics Glorfindel as someone mentioned I'd be frowning less and doing a lot more Tactics deckbuilding right now. Lol.

yeah i wasnt hating either, i buy these products therefore am a customer, and therefore have a right to speak up and say if i dont like something....just like i did with the lack of solo playable cards in the current cycle- i know its not going to get me anywhere, apart from getting shouted at, but i feel that if i sit here and say nothing then my opinion is not valid- just like if i love something i speak up to

I remember a comment about ''insta-lose'' treachery cards...I agree with it. I know we haven't been privy to a lot of the encounter cards from the next expansion but it is true that some of the later quests had a lot of ''When Revealed : All your heroes die'' kind of effects. I hope they will tone it down in the coming expansions.

As for Aragorn...well...the fact that they re-released a hero in a different version doesn't bother me : in fact I love it because it enables us to explore other aspects of the character. In fact, a lot of the characters sometimes seem out of place in their sphere...Bilbo could easily have been a Spirit hero, for instance. So a new Aragorn ? I dig.

However, I wish they would have made him more different regarding his stats, for example. That way he would have been thematically more coherent (I see Strider more as Aragorn the Quester / Ranger). That, and well...his ability is powerful, no doubt, but I never liked abilities that are one-use. If not for his sentinel trait, Aragorn is actually a blank hero for the rest of the game. Perhaps it's just me, but I like when my abilities see constant use.

Overall though, I'm sure this pack will be awesome :-)

richsabre said:

Funny that you mention the lack of solo play cards in the current cycle because up until this cycle I haven't really gotten into solo deck building. The secrecy cards have me intrigued for some possible fun solo play. That being said I have noticed a bit of a flux in multiplayer only cards