Demeanours are an interesting thing from Deathwatch. I remember reading the original previews thinking that Demeanours were going to be something rules based - each Demeanour would have its own effect, and each Chapter would have its own unique Demeanour as well. They could only be used once, but would provide an appropriate boost for the right time, assuming the right sort of Demeanour was used at that time.

When the Free RPG Day booklet came out and explained that Demeanours were just a slightly different way of doing Fate Points, I was quite disappointed. I had thought they would be heavily rules-based (like Solo and Squad Modes turned out to be), and not something dependant mostly on actual role-play. It's not that I have a problem with game mechanics that function when using role-play, it's just that reading the previews didn't give me that impression.

Since then we've used demeanours in virtually every game we've played (in fact it is a rare game indeed when we all don't use them). They've proven to be one of the best bits of the game, and we usually save them for climactic fights, great show downs or moments of sacrifice. Usually they take the form of a rousing speech (in keeping with the Demeanour and our character's history), be they something made up on the fly, a litany of hatred, or even quoting some great Imperial text (the first time I used a Demeanour I quoted the entire 'And They Shall Know No Fear' speech!). They're a lot of fun, and we like doing them that way.


But that's the way we do them, and it might not be the way you do them. So I'm interested in hearing from other players (and GM's) for how you guys approach the use of Demeanours (or if you don't bother with them, and why). Is our method the norm, or weirdly different to everyone else?

Let me know.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

For me Demeanors are primarily and RP thing and only secondary interesting from a rules perspective. It helps me to get a graps on the character and also to structure up things a bit, not to mention that Chapter Demeanors will also likely help people play a character for a specific Chapter without having to read through a vast canon selection of sources. Just read the splat in the book, take a look at the Chapter Demeanor and you're ready to go!

I love demeanours. I love demeanours so hard that when demeanours and I are in a room together, everyone else feels a little awkward. At first, I used them as not much more than a RP trait - your chapter is aggressive! Grrr!

I was reading through Jericho Reach though, and had an idea. I no longer hand out Fate Points to characters for successfully doing awesome things. I hand out demeanours. The characters managed to kill a bio-titan, so they gained the demeanour "Giantslayer". A couple of missions later, they fought a Defiler and they all used that demeanour. Here's the kicker though, because they weren't just 'spending a fate point', they all made sure that they only used a demeanour - something with a title that only gets granted through heroic means - in truly heroic fashions! Whether it was for a dodge roll to distract the beast while someone attacked it, to climbing on top and attempting to banish the bound daemon inside, no one used a demeanour to just get an additional hit for a rapid fire weapon. It was only for cool stuff.

professor_kylan said:

professor_kylan said:

Is that a deed, demeanour or squad mode ability? Seems like its more of a squad ability/deed rather than a demeanour.

I was going to throw out a deed, but ended up making it a custom demeanour. Anyone with this demeanour can call for a reroll, etc, when facing off against ridiculously oversized foes. It's up to the group to make that glorious. After a recent mission with a horrifically dodgy inquisitor, I'm considering throwing them 'Paranoid' as a demeanour - they're wiser than to trust those that haven't proven themselves.

I'll probably add Demeanours along with Deeds, but I'm being a little more discrete with Deeds as a general rule. That's more personal preference than anything - I wouldn't specifically state that others should emulate me there.

professor_kylan said:

*squints*

But that's... not how demeanours work. They inform your character's personality. What you're describing is a Distinction or perhaps a new Squad Mode.

BYE

Neither of the games I've played in have ever triggered a demeanour, much to my disappointment. How do you guys get others to make use of them?

H.B.M.C. said:

A demeanour is a personality trigger that can be activated like a fate point (and seriously, I do NOT read the books as well as I should, so feel free to ignore me here) and is usually tied to chapter and personality traits: A Zealous, Gregarious Black Tamplar, for instance.

I noticed that after defeating the Bio-titan, my players were acting differently in character. They were looking for big fights, challenging each other to perform greater feats next time. Their in-game personalities had changed because of the encounter. Whereas Demeanours inform a characters personality, I'm letting personality inform demeanours.

igotsmeakabob!! said:

igotsmeakabob!! said:

If depends on the players, as H.M.B.C. said above. If you're running the game and your group aren't really much into that level of roleplaying - or not comfortable with it - I'd ease them into it gently. Remind them of their Demeanours when it's appropriate and when they say they're using them, prompt them "How is your character manifesting that?" or, you know, paraphrase from my poor english. Award a +5 or +10 bonus for actions that are well described. Get your group to watch a couple of good action movies and point out places where their demeanours seem to be appropriate.

professor_kylan said:

professor_kylan said:

Exactly. A demeanour is supposed to be ingrain into a character's personality. Like what differentiates a character from another of the same chapter.

In game, its meant to give players a moment of glory when they trigger the demeanour. Of course its once a game, but it may have games breaking connotation. GMs are recommended to give +10/+20 or even blatantly ignoring bad rolls cos the Emperor is with them, not re-rolls.

Imagine if the boss character is a Tervigon or Heroic Carnifex, and they get a +10/+20 to that scene or if they role play a 'giant buster' well, there's not going to be fun for them.

Now I think you may award this as a special deed/ distinction/ squad tactic that they have earned. Something like an evolution of the kill team xeno-hunting abilities. Of course you may want to get the players to spend approapriate amount of xp to purchase this.

I suggest a squad mode ability. Currently only tactical marines may attempt to 'share' squad mode abilities with the KT. The whole KT may benefit with the squad mode ability. IMO this may be the way you had meant to had it play out.

Every once and a while, while extolling the virtues of The Emperor, Dorn, Sigusmund and their teachings during combat with the external vox on and at maximum volume I will take a wee bit to much damage. So I generally enable my personal demeanor and spend a fate point to heal 2d10 wounds rather than just the normal 1d10. I believe the only other time I used it was when I was in a meeting where the planetary governor asked my opinion and I gave the Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge type answer to the shock of all in the war room. I don't think I have enabled my chapter demeanor yet.

Deepstriker said:

I use Demeanours like conditional Fate Points. I've cut down the number of regular Fate Points that the group has received. Everyone is sitting on a base of two Fate, with their various Demenaours propping them up. I don't use them as a scene length thing, and never would - regardless of what the core rules might say about how Demeanours activate. It doesn't work as a Squad Mode for this game, because not all the characters were present at the event. The way I intended to play it wout was the exact method I described - it works for me, it works for my players, and I'm fairly comfortable in saying that my game is solid, fun and balanced.

This thread inquired how various people use Demeanours. This is how I use Demeanours. As a reward for excellent roleplaying. I'm not going to tell the group, "Well done! You guys did some awesome stuff today! To benefit from this action, please pay 250xp". That's not the way my game works. I'm very careful as to how and when I hand out more intangiable in-game rewards, such as Deeds and Distinctions, because there is a great deal more politicing in this game than others - the addition of an Iron Halo would mean a great deal more than "can receive a force field in future missions".

My boss characters are rarely something like "Tervigon" or "Carnifex". The last battle against nids (where they fought the bio-titan) ended with a duel between the bio-titan and a giant mining vehicle, claws and bio-acid fighting against mining lasers and drills. The last mission they played had no boss creature, it was the group attempting to hold back an unstoppable wave of Necrontyr warriors while the Tech-priest struggled to activate the Teleport Homer and the Assault Marine lay charges on the top of the nearby Pylon that was blocking their escape. The next mission will likely having one of their number fist-fighting a chaos lord on the back of a speeding train packed with explosives that is tearing towards a Hive. You're saying that the way I do things isn't the way I can best ensure my players have fun ?

And the rest of this rant I'm going to delete before posting as it's largely conjecture and arrogance. To summarise though, I accept you are attempting to be helpful and supportive, and there's a decent chance that I'm just reacting a little harsher than is required, but my game does not need to be improved. I do not need suggestions to make it better, and the 'fixes' to my system you have suggested would not work with my group. I have offered to the thread the way I do things; that was not an invitation to try to correct me.

professor_kylan said:

It is true that this thread inquires how various people use demeanours in their games. The mechanics and how you issue rewards in your game are separate matters.

professor_kylan said:

According to what is written in Rites of Battle, what you are giving out feels like a deed or a distinction gearing towards squad based tactics. What you are attempting to mention is a combination of a house rule and a deed/ squad ability. If that makes your game awesome for your players do not hesitate to implement your house rules and share them.

professor_kylan said:
I'm very careful as to how and when I hand out more intangiable in-game rewards, such as Deeds and Distinctions, because there is a great deal more politicing in this game than others - the addition of an Iron Halo would mean a great deal more than "can receive a force field in future missions".

Agreed that the Iron Halo example carries political influence as well as in game effects. The core of DW does not gear towards politics though. That theme seems to be more present in DH. Which was why your awarded demeanour seems like a Squad Mode ability.

professor_kylan said:
You're saying that the way I do things isn't the way I can best ensure my players have fun?

What I'm trying to say is that if you adopt demeanours as they are worded in the core, then the recommended bonuses especially the portion recommending GMs to 'ignore bad rolls' may affect the fun in your game. I did not say what you do does not best ensure your players have fun.


professor_kylan said:
To summarise though, I accept you are attempting to be helpful and supportive, and there's a decent chance that I'm just reacting a little harsher than is required, but my game does not need to be improved. I do not need suggestions to make it better, and the 'fixes' to my system you have suggested would not work with my group. I have offered to the thread the way I do things; that was not an invitation to try to correct me.

I respect that each GM has his/her own style of running their games, as they know their players best. We sharing our knowledge and experiences on Deathwatch, as well as seek solutions to questions we may face regarding the game. In no way am I trying to correct/ fix/ patch your game or you as a GM.

(edit: Paginations not intended to look so screwed up)

Deepstriker said:

I apologise - I was having a pretty bad morning and read your original response with a little more venom than was perhaps intended.

I confess that my game is probably divorced enough from a traditional DW game that it warrants its own category in places I do a lot of politicing - both within and without the Deathwatch and Inquisition - which very much changes the tone of things. It's perhaps not 'Core' DW, but it seems to work a lot better with my group. We've been playing various games on and off for longer than I care to admit to, so games where you just run combat based missions have lost their lustre. We're more interested in the roleplaying aspect of "Who is an Astartes" more than anything else. This further depth is what makes the Demeanour system I'm using work a little nicer. The new demeanours get awarded as my response to seeing players roleplay in a different drection, putting more emphasis on somethings than others.

New squad modes I don't hand out to the group - I've told them that if they want a new squad mode, they need to train for it as a squad IC before we'll discuss rules. They're currently working on a hit and run attack using grenades, similar to Bolter Assault but with more of a focus on disrupting enemy movement with a combination of Blind and Frag grenades. To me, Squad modes should be developed by the squad, not by the GM (other than arbitrating the rules, of course - none of us trust our players that much, amirite?).

While I will be handing out Distinctions/Deeds, I'll probably be doing a similar thing to what you've suggested I do with Demeanours. Instead of acting as a Fate Point, they'll grant difficulty bonuses in certain situations for the most part. That being said, I'm still uncertain as to how specific I want to make the Deeds/ Distinctions. My players have outright said that they are not going to spend XP on them - they don't think it's worth it for many of the Marks... and I vaguely agree (although if I was playing in a game, I confess I probably wouldn't). I'd prefer things like Distinctions, Deeds, Demeanours and all the other things that might start with "D" (Derangements?) be rewards for actions taken, rather than things you can just buy up with points (a simplification, I know. I still have to permit such things).