Is anyone else thinking that this new sphere is a nod to solo players?

xibxang said:

is this new sphere going to be included in packs after the expansions? ie wil you have to own this expansion to buy later packs to get full use of the baggins sphere

richsabre said:

Well, I'm no expert but I would guess that spreading this new sphere over the next cycle of APs after the two expansions would make good business sense as it would give many players a very valid reason to buy into a third cycle. Besides, the concept of stealth's being drip-fed to us over the current cycle. There's no reason why the four-member-party concept won't be doled out in the next.

Just my opinion, though.

right, not sure what to think of that...on one hand its no different to you having to own khazad to play the dwarrowdelf cycle for instance, however the expansions are rather different to deluxe packs- not sure how its going to play out

As they didn't mention anything about a corresponding cycle and it seems like everything will be covered by the expansions story-wise I very much doubt there will be more cards of that sphere outside of those expansions. It wouldn't fit thematically.

I am thinking that the Baggins sphere will be restricted to the Hobbit scenarios and not mix in generally outside of this.

I'm also guessing that Bilbo and the Bilbo Sphere won't be added to outside of these two Deluxe Expansions. Mainly due to the wording in the preview:

"Throughout the scenarios of The Hobbit: Over Hill and Under Hill, Bilbo Baggins joins the first player as a free hero."

So it sounds like the new Bilbo himself is just a special character for use with these quests.

I don't think we will see very many heroes for this new sphere because it seems like it was intended for the Saga expansions. However I don't see a reason why we couldn't use this Bilbo in previous/future expansions. He is a 0 threat character but if he is killed it is all over for your group. He is a high risk/high reward character. I wouldn't be surpised to see them make a rule where players can only have 1 baggins hero in play.

I don't think we will ever see a complete deck for this sphere because just from the cards previewed (which is only one) it only applied to Bilbo.

I'm betting they gave this a lot of forethought and decided on making the new Baggins sphere to be used in Saga Expansions because it applies equally well to Bilbo in The Hobbit as it does to Frodo in The Lord of the Rings. But it seems to me that Baggins sphere cards will be used only in Saga quests and not in the normal expansions and adventure packs.

Budgernaut said:

I agree he's probably made mainly for these quests, but what's cool is that nowhere on his card does he say he *can't* be used out of there. But we just don't know yet.

I'm kind of hoping you can use him in normal decks against other Quests though. The negatives of doing so are that he's weak, you instantly lose if he dies, his resources have limited use without a Song or something, he bounces between players (could be good or bad) and there will probably be a very limited amount of cards for his sphere. But the benefits are the sweet 0 threat that could really make Secrecy cards outstanding and that his sphere cards will probably be very good and can be played by any players.

Seems like it'd be fun to try but again we'll just have to wait and see the rules.

I doubt we'll see Baggins sphere cards used in APs or other scenarios, especially because this "saga" expansion clearly exists outside the mainstream continuity FFG has established for this game. I'll be really interested to see how--or if--they reconcile this expansion with the rest of the card pool. I mean, I like Thorin Oakenshield as much as the next guy, but won't it be weird to have him show up on the Road to Rivendell given the fact that he's...dead?

I have a feeling these scenarios will be cast as several of Bilbo's tales, and that there will be some limitations on which Core Set/Adventure Pack cards can be used in conjunction with the cards in the saga expansion. Either that or FFG just stops worrying about any sort of continuity.

starhawk77 said:

I don't think they'd do that. It would add unnecessary busyness to the game. And like has already been discussed in other threads there is already very little continuity, like how Eowyn was like 6 years old or how you can take Eagles inside Khazad-Dum.

They'll probably just let us continue to build however we want and if it bothers you that a certain character wasn't around then you personally can just decide to not use them.

Mattr0polis said:

That would certainly be the simplest approach. Personally, I could care less about the "story," but FFG seems committed to maintaining at least a semblance of a cohesive narrative. Eowyn doesn't make much sense in that regard, but dead dwarves would be even more difficult to explain. Still, trying to artificially limit hero selection in future scenarios could turn into a massive headache, so you're probably right to think they just won't worry about it.

Mattr0polis said:

I'm quite sure we will see a little booklet. And in this booklett we will find some rules, saying that Bilbo and his Baggins sphere can only be used in the saga-scenarios (and maybe later in the LOTR-Saga, if these will ever be published).

I really like the idea of treasure cards and i hope the campaign-feeling will be much better than it's yet.

FFG, I'm waiting, hurry to publish! Now! Yesterday! no matter when but asap!

I have seen games before where characters that could never possibly meet each other, i. e. characters from the"past' and the "present", can be included in the same deck. Realistically, I have a hard time believing that cards from this expansion could not be used in the regular sets. I can see Bilbo and his sphere as an exception to that and maybe the treasures, but the regular heroes and other player cards should be playable. Otherwise, you have a bunch of player cards that are only useful in a handful of scenarios and that does not serve to advance the game.

I am not reading anything that implies he can only be used in these expansions. After all, the Treasure cards are not explained enough and imply replayability for not discovering them all in one scenario. The way I am reading it, you earn the ability to include these Treasures in your deck, but am not sure if that is for deck building or if it is shuffled in once you find them in the scenario. It would seem silly if these Treasures were shuffled in to your deck only during that scenario because you may never draw them. I could be wrong on my interpretation.

The first player controls him, so in multiplayer, it is entirely possible to have a 4th hero because of that. Perhaps he can only be 1 of the 3 heroes for Player A, but because of his passive ability, when Player B gets control of him, he must be his 4th hero while Player A only has 2 Heroes remaining.

More likely than not, without additional Baggins sphere heroes, Player B won't have Baggins cards to spend his resources on, so when Player A gets him back, he'll have the extra resource that was gained while Player B was the first player.

I think this is one way to encourage the ability to use Secrecy and perhaps we'll see some other gimmicky heroes with really low threat. This could be a better hero in Solo play because you never have to share him.

Titan said:

Thematically there is plenty that is not necessarily accurate in the game already. Combining past and present heroes may not make much sense because of the timeline, but for a game and to encourage dynamic deck building options(and to increase replayability due to keeping it interesting) I'm all for it to add to the fun. To enjoy the game, I do not need everything to make sense storywise or themewise unless they started introducing aliens and spaceships etc.

I for one am extremely excited. The hobbit is not only my favorite piece of work by Tolkien, but my favorite book of all time.

Bilbo looks underwhelming at first, but I bet there are a lot of really good Baggins spheres cards that really let him shine. After all, he was underwhelming at first, but then always found a way to save the day in the end.

As for the issue of conflicting timelines and dead dwarf heroes? I say "meh, who cares?". Listen, we already have a game that allows a Bilbo to go on an adventure with Boromir and Glorfindel to raid the orcs of moria or run around osgiliath. The timeline and canon of tolkiens world is obviously not the main objective of this game. Its to create new stories, much in the sense that an RPG does. I don't understand the point of allowing certain things to slide and not others. After all, if we really want to keep this true to tolkiens work, we might as well burn our cards and just read lord of the rings.

They also said that this was a Saga expansion. Does that imply that future sets might have stories from the Samarillion or other eras?

peterstepon said:

That's what a lot of us are hoping. Like the normal monthly Adventure Packs and Deluxe expansions can continue the current 'in-between' timeframe and then FFG occasionally throw out a new 'Saga' box based on the Lord of the Rings trilogy, Silmarillion, etc.

I'd be 100% perfectly fine with that.

Bomb said:

They couldn't be shuffled in from the encounter deck, that's for sure. They have different backs.

I could see a few options:

1) Completing certain objectives "unlocks" these cards for use in player decks for future scenarios. There is nothing stopping players from simply including them in their decks though. Perhaps you are supposed to play through all 3 quests in a row, and after each quest you add some treasures to your deck as you complete the next quests so they build up.

2) They are part of the encounter deck, but get used immediately somehow (similar to how objectives already work).

3) They are a third random deck (player deck, encounter deck, treasure deck) and certain cards tell the player to draw cards from the treasure deck.

I'm betting on number 1. I'm guessing it's more of a thematic thing and there will be nothing stopping players from just including these in any deck from the start. I'm also curious as to how they would expect you to track all the treasures you've unlocked so far.

Svenn said:

Just curious, where did it say the Treasures have different backs?

Mattr0polis said:

I would assume they have player card backs because the article implies that you can use the treasure cards in your deck once they're "unlocked" so if that's the case they couldn't be put into the encounter deck. But that's still a bit of speculation at this point obviously

Khaden said:

My bet is that the treasures will be like objective cards, with encounter backs, and shuffled in the encounter deck, but they will act as attachment cards, so that when you reveal it from the encounter deck, you let them revealed until you can pay its costs, and attach them to a hero. Once you made that, you can let them be attached to that hero at the end of the quest, and to attempt the following quest (or repeat the current one in order to search for more treasures) with the same heros and deck. So, they will never be shuffled in the player deck.

Just my thoughts. Greetings.