Just running with an idea here. There have been 0 talbain decks at major events in the past few weeks/months. Part of me is trying to decide if this is just the final bit of proof that hes actually too good.

I get this feeling like people are actually scared to play with him because they know that he is actually so good that they are deathy afraid of losing to diversity. Let's face facts the only other reason a character dosent see play at majors is because they are terrible, and we can all agree that JT isnt that.

My biggest fear is that FFG has been saying they are looking at JT for some time now and that they have been waiting for tourney results to judge him, but if he dosent start showing in events by quality players, not because of his power but because of a flaw with the divresity rule, then what happens when hes still around and then we get events that are like 50% JT decks and such.

I'm thinking you may be right. If it wasn't for the fact that I know I would absolutely suck at playing JT, I would do it without a doubt.

I think thats gonna happen, one day at the same time everyone is going to be like "lets play talbain and surprise people and win that diversity"........then when 10 talbains make like top 20/30 that'll be fun I'm sure >_> Who wouldnt enjoy that tournament

Just another idea. Is the fact that your typical JT deck is like entirley foiled and filled with ultras and promos the reason that it hasent been showing up. Can most people not afford to make one on a torurney level yet?

Trust me, one of us from Foxhound will be running talbain, we aren't sure who yet... but the wolfman will be on campus at michigan montreal toronto and minnisota if he's not banned yet.

sir_shajir said:

He won't be at that point. I sincerely doubt it.

Protoaddict said:

Great point Fred I think it might be a money thing of why some people arent playing him right now but maybe in michigan we will see more of the money decks and more of him to show what happens.

i think it might just be that he is so easy to build. if you can get around the money isues talbain is almost cookie cutter. i probably wouldn't run him even if i could aford a full foil wolfman deck. maybe i just like to be creative, but i feel like if i run jt i will just be stealing someone elses idea. if i'm gonna make the ultimate build, i want it to be my idea. so i would say that diversity, expensiveness, and lack of originality are the main reasons why the wolfman has not reared his ugly head at any large tournements yet.

Not quite true. Talbain took first place at GCC. Granted, it was in a two-on-two SIDE EVENT, but he is a big part of why the winning team won, all the same. We played out a strategy with a character that forces everyone to play with few foundations (Talbain) and a character that can play with NO foundations (*Cody*). And it worked perfectly.

And I must say, I did kinda enjoy playing with him IN that event...I had to borrow a Spike and two Mysterious Stance for the deck, but I had everything else I needed. I may pick him up for a while, dunno.

He is stupidly good, though, Fred. You remember how Nick from Lafayette made top 8 at Worlds? His first opponent in t8 was Goo's Talbain deck, and he won. I picked up Talbain for the first time ever, played against him at GCC, and won. That someone can pick him up with no experience playing him and do really well against someone who's beaten him at a high level of competitive play says a lot about his power level. I've gotten a lot better since Worlds, but not THAT much better.

I think this may actually furthers my case because diversity dosent affect thoes style events, or at least not on that level, and lo and behold talbain wins.

Exactly. There wasn't a SINGLE SOLITARY TALBAIN that registered for Singles or Teams for GCC.

The one event that there WAS one for, he won. Very simple.

If not for diversity and lending my BRT/lack of Spikes overall, I might've played him for Singles myself. Meh.

i think more people would play talbain if there was a diferent diversity rule. lets say alex3 counted as a diferent char then alex4, then people could dodge diversity by playing promo talbain in the final round. i think this would make a lot more people play the wolfman. i don't aprove this rule, just think it would alow people to play the weaker version of a char without fear of being killed by diversity.

MegaGeese said:

I also wanted to play against you with your kyoshiro deck but you kept backing out. oh well.

That someone can pick him up with no experience playing him and do really well against someone who's beaten him at a high level of competitive play says a lot about his power level. I've gotten a lot better since Worlds, but not THAT much better.

O no, I'm not gloating at all. Read the quoted part of that post - I'm flat-out saying YOU'RE the better player, there's no doubt about that. It's simply ridiculous that someone (me) with no prior experience playing him can out something together without testing it and win.

He's overpowered. That's the only point I'm making. Cocky? Not at all. Never claimed the deck was better than Goo's, either. Confidence? Hell no! The only thing I had confidence in was the Double Dragon event, but we'd been planning for that for months, so I fully expected to win that; our team was built around *Cody*. Talbain was picked because he's the ideal partner for Cody, simple as that. Personal taste would have been *Donovan*.

So please...chill out. I'm not making any bold, brash, or arrogant statements.

Edit: dang quote function...why won't you work correctly?!

otakuV said:

Woah, woah, easy there chief, why don't you have yourself a big tall glass of calm-down juice?

The point wasn't that he beat you, the point was that Talbain is ridiculously strong if he could take on a competitve player who had experienced Talbain before and beat them with it. He was not in the slightest insinuating that you were a bad player in that post, so with all due respect, GET OVER YOURSELF! The post wasn't about you, you just happened to be the guy that was there at the time, if you wanna call a person cocky when he's not in the slightest bit being negative to you, then you're just too prideful.

His post was about Talbain and his power problems, not about beating any specific person.

Two things

1. Diversity (which you pointed out, and are correct)

and

2. He creates an entirely new flow for the game, one that's extremely NPE, and is the chief reason (IMO) why he's going to get the hammer.

otakuV said:

as other people have said chill ego man.

trane said:

no ego intended and took it wrong. its kool.sorry.

I can't speak for other people's choices when it comes to diversity because my philosophy is that if you're going to play in a major tourney, then you're also "in for a penny, in for a pound." I didn't make the top cut at Worlds because there was another Yun-Seong with a better record that I couldn't hope to beat by the last round (oh, BTW, Goo's and Fred's J.T.s were my the losses that shattered my record), so I threw that round. Had I won that round, I might have been diversified out by one single point. The same goes for Antigoth, I think, who also played YS, also had a really good record, but gave his last opponents the win too (right?).

I'm pretty sure James had the same philosophy too. I believe he said that Ibuki would give him his best chance to win Worlds, and he knew that he had to be the best Ibuki player in the event to win it. I don't know why people are (apparently) so afraid of being diversified out. I mean really, if you think that another player playing your character will have a better record than you by the top cut, doesn't that reflect on your confidence in yourself as a player? Whosoever reads that can take it at face value. If you go into a tournament and you're not playing the character that you truly believe gives you the best shot at winning because someone else *might* get a better record than you with that character, well then I hope you're not playing there to win the event...

Sorry if that's harsh, but that's the reality check that I administer to myself.

Also, yeah, there's definitely a distinct difference between the above and not being able to play the best deck that you can think of because you don't have access to the cards that offer an optimal build.

OP: After all that, the main reasoning in this thread's title doesn't amount to a proper argument for me.

I don't think it's a cost factor. As CtR said "in for a penny in for a pound" (granted it's a lil outta context). If folks wanna play UFS, it's brutally obvious you need to spend almost an exorborant amount of money to be competative at a major tourney level. But I digress...

Talbain is dumb, it's official and we've all known for a long time. Now him not being at the GCC kinda surprises me. Usually the flavor of the month is piloted to top eight in every major event, whether it be block 2 Ibuki, or block 3 Talbain. I personally think folks didn't wanna fight for diversity, which makes a lot of sense. I still do expect to see about 100000000000000000000000000000 copies of him at other major events, with more than 30+ people.

Oh and did I mention the deck is atrociously boring to play with? That could be another reason.

B-Rad said:

It makes sense that people dont want 2 play him at all....i couldnt probably the hardest character 2 play(not just play around) but play that has ever been printed and most players want something they can get comfortable with and talbain isnt one of those characters

I'll be in shock to not see Talbain up at the 2009 Motor City Regionals on March 7th, 2009! (end shameless plug)

This isn't going to be Ibuki-fest or Donovan-fest or Talbain-fest. Bring the deck that you feel most confident in and play it. If nothing else, people are afraid of the Talbain mirror match and how to play against it.

ctr2yellowbird said:

I do agree with this on some level, though my usual MO isnt to play whats strongest but to play what will beat the strongest and most prominent deck, that isnt really possible with Talbain but all the same.

Anyways just because you or I have a cut throat mentality about deck building and tourney prep, it dosent mean that the general populace of the game share that mind set. I would go as far as saying that most people probably are scared of diversity.

And James playing ibuki was also almost came down to us making him flip a coin between her and his character card, so you can see the though process that goes into it sometimes. I played talbain fully knowing Goo, one of my roomates for the con, was playing it as well and knowing one of us wasent top 8ing.

Maybe to really judge talbains performance we should start looking at team events or events without diversity.

Nyobari said:

Ya there afriad of the utter boredom the 2 must endure for 50 min's of saying done go lol . But in the end i guess it will come down to skill since JT has proved to be only powerful in a skilled players hands.

Protoaddict said:

Diversity is just something else you have to contend with. Playing off the wall characters tends to make sure you can avoid the process entirely, with (if you're not, y'know, completely stupid) minimal impact on the deck. Depending on the symbol, you can main a wide variety of characters. Granted, when it comes to J.Talbain, you're pretty much screwed, but in general, diversity's not really a factor. True, some players would play the FotM deck at every single tournament they can, but I doubt it'd really be that bad.