A few additional questions after playing this game for a while now:

Can Backtrack be used on a card that was attached to a Hide?

What occurs first: the new location Dracula moves to or a location card falling off the track, potentially maturing or going to Catacombs?

How do you resolve a Hunter(s) caught "cheating"?

What transpired was the player not only went with Dr. Seward before Lord Godalming but also mixed their cards together while revealing my location. There is no penalty that I recall in the rulebook but I assume it would have to be as significant as if Dracula were caught "cheating", which devastates any plans Dracula may have had and additionally exposing his location.

We settled it differently, and it was an okay yet hasty resolution; later, we thought perhaps Dracula immediately reacts as if Evasion were drawn and any Hunters who conflicted with the rules immediately end their turns. Ideas?

... And I know there was a couple more but I forgot. I will post tomorrow after I ask my friend.

Hi Tromdial!

a) not so sure what you mean with "Backtrack". Do you mean "Double back"? the rules you "backtrack" only in relation to sea movement, and they say it's disallowed. If it's Double back, then, you cannot double back a power card, you must double back the location you played the Hide card at. Plese crosscheck with the following FAQ

Q: How is the Hide card handled if Dracula uses Double Back to move to the same location in which he used Hide?
A: The location card is moved up on the Trail and played with Double Back as usual. The Hide card is revealed and discarded from Dracula’s Trail, and the cards older than Hide in Dracula’s Trail are shifted to fill in the empty space. Effectively, Dracula must announce to the Hunters that he is doubling back to a location in which he previously hid.

b) Dracula moving to a new location makes the oldest location to drop off the trail. Encounters on the dropped off card mature at the end of Dracula's action phase, hence, later.

c) As far as I know, you're right, there are no rules for Hunters caught cheating. My suggestion is: keep on drawing from the Event deck until you have drawn a total of three Dracula events. Or, give Dracula two free movements. Or, since the penalty for Dracula is having some blood removed, give the cheating investigator a bite token. Don't know. Maybe a free Evasion is a little too strong. It heavily depends on how good your players are, and if they did this by intention (sometimes people commit mistakes because they didn't pay enough attention or get confused by the rules). If they intentionally cheated... well, go wth the free Evasion . If it was a momentary lapse of reason... be a little more clement

It wasn't on purpose. The player controlling Godalming and Dr. Seward seemed more interested in his laptop than the game and placed his cards separate from his character sheets. When it got to his turn, I guess he swooped up Godalming's cards and skipped Godalming to go to Dr. Seward. He played Fast Horses and went to Valona, where incidentally I was at. Then I realized Godalming wasn't doing anything and then we all realized one of his cards should have been Godalming's too; thus, we had a "cheating" problem occur.

The way we resolved it in negotiation between the second player and I was the encounter I threw away that was Forewarned can be replaced with any encounter from my hand after drawing an additional encounter too. All cards used go back to Dracula and the Hunter's hands. Then Dr. Seward was placed back where he was and both Godalming and Seward's turns ended. Van Helsing and Mina still got their turns (because that was the other player) but could not go to Vienna. Lastly, I got to take two move actions my next turn. This solution was a little complex and hasty but it managed reasonably well.

Yeah I thought maybe a free Evasion would be a little strong too but how I reasoned it were a few things:

1). Dracula's caught "cheating" is just as severe, as he must clear completely his track of all locations but the one he is currently in, and that location is revealed. Secondly, he loses blood as if he were just killed (except if it would kill him; then he simply reduces to 1 hp left). This even happens when he has inadvertently trapped himself within his own trail, so voluntary or involuntary "cheating" seems irrelevant in either case of Dracula or Hunter.

2). Evasion, to me, seems the exact opposite of Dracula's penalty, which seems fair. Instead of losing your trail, you keep your trail. Instead of revealing your location, you gain any location you want not already on your track. What makes up for the loss of blood is instead the loss of time Hunters take to find and move towards the new location, because for Dracula, healing lost blood is very difficult and uses a move for just 1.

3). Even if Evasion were the answer to a "cheating" response for Hunters, Hunters still have Resolve which can either act as a Newspaper Reports or a Sense of Emergency, let alone they may have Hypnosis (which one did), Surprising Return (for Hypnosis and Sense of Emergency cards), and Hired Scouts and Newspaper Reports. Once they know where I am at, Sense of Emergency or if the game is early enough still, just walk or train towards the latest known city in Dracula's trail.

Oh, and as far as I remember, the only other question I had was this: when using Excellent Weather and moving through sea zones with the Hunter, does this movement reveal any sea zones Dracula may have been at or does it skip over them like how using the train does?

Tromdial said:

Sea Zone cards are not revealed in the same way as Land Zone cards. They can be revealed by certain card effects, but they are not revealed simply by having a hunter move into the same sea zone. Likewise, Dracula moving past a hunter using Excellent Weather would not reveal the sea zone the hunter shared with him. They're on different boats - even if the hunter can see Dracula's ship in the distance, he has no way of knowing Dracula is there.

Tromdial said:

Ugh, I hate it when people try to multitask while playing a game. If you're so disinterested in the board game that you feel compelled to do other things at the same time then why did you even agree to play in the first place? Personally I avoid these problems by not playing with people like this.

As far as rules for "cheating," it's a general board gaming axiom that player's shouldn't cheat. The rules exist for a reason, after all. The only reason there are special rules for what to do if Dracula cheats is because there are significant elements of the game that only Dracula is allowed to know. If the Dracula player screws up it could be several turns before anyone realizes the mistake, so simply "undoing it" isn't a reasonable option.

The hunters, on the other hand, do not have any long-term hidden information like this. Cards in hand are secret until played, but they also have no impact on the game until played. The hunters might screw up now and then (everybody's human), but in general their mistakes will be evident within the turn and can be "rewound" or "undone" if the need arises.

As far as preventing this sort of thing from happening in the future, I'd say smack your friend a good one and tell him not to use the laptop while playing a board game.

Tromdial said:

Tromdial,

Steve hit the spot. The thing you have to rember is that while at sea, you don't have any Action phase (you can cross-check this at pag 10 of the rules). And you search for Dracula at the beginning of every Action phase. So, even if the Hunter, by normal movement of via Excellent Weather, enters a Sea Zone on Dracula's trail, the card is not turned face-up. Other cards may force the Sea Zone to be revealed, but not a Hunter's moving.

As for the second point... yeah, I'm with Steve as well. I tend not to play with people not giving the game the attention it deserves. This behavious kinda turns down everyone, and we all feel like there is no respect towards the game or the people you're playing with. Anyway, follow the line you and your pals believe to be the most appropriate to handle this situations :-) And I wish you it won't ever happen again

Julia said:

Yeah, my friend circle is very small though, so we deal with what we must. Anyways, I did not know anything about that sea zone bit. So Dracula cannot be revealed at sea except by Hunter Event cards!?

Tromdial said:

Or by the Jonathan Harker Ally card

Julia said:

Nice! I wonder how many of our games where Dracula had a close win were hurt because Hunters dashed to find his sea trail using invalid actions? Oh well, now I know and Dracula has that much more advantage.

Four new questions:

1. In what order do Hunters draw their Event and Item cards. Specifically, I ask this because there is a "Play Immediately" Event card that makes you discard an item to search the Item deck for a more suitable replacement. Must the Event always come first, or can you draw your item and then the event? Can you draw both at same time and then choose order?

2. Can Dracula turn any card face-up voluntarily, especially Hide, or is he only ever prompted to do so by Events, Hunters finding his trail, and "cheating", and is prevented from showing Hunters his whereabouts of his own free will?

3. According to the manual on page 24, the special location of Castle Dracula is a location on the board, and follows are bullets, one of which details the double-sided card used to reach the location. Therefore, it sounds like Castle Dracula gains you the +1 combat benefit and 2 regeneration of blood for as long as you sit on the location of Castle Dracula, in addition to how often you use the Castle Dracula location card. Why this is important is because if you use Dracula's Power cards to stay in your present location, and that location is Castle Dracula, will you still retain the +1 bonus and 2 regen every turn? This means using Dark Call cost is free (regen and loss cancel out), Feed is 3 regen for the one turn it is used, and you can Double Back if Castle Dracula is adjacent to your current location (i.e. Klausenburg or Galatz).

4. When you Hide, if question #2 proves "Yes", how does that affect using the Hide card while at Castle Dracula? If you do play Hide face-down, does that mean you can play an encounter there where normally you could not (detailed in first bullet under Castle Dracula description)? If you can play it face-up, does that mean you cannot place an encounter there but may regenerate 2 health and gain +1 to combat because you are at the location of Castle Dracula? If you played Hide face-down originally but a Hunter goes to Castle Dracula, requiring Hide to be turned face-up, does the encounter still go off; do you receive an immediate +1 because combat is being commenced at Castle Dracula (I assume the 2 blood regeneration is only on Dracula's turn)?

I know a similar question as #2 and #4 was posted by me a couple months ago, but this time it is more refined, hopefully, in its asking and this time requires a more detailed response in light of question #3 especially. Thanks.

1. Rules under Resupply say that you can draw an Event and / or an Object, so I guess you draw the Event first, and then the Object (but it's not clearly stated anywhere that I'm aware of). But honestly, I don't see why you shouldn't do the other way round, though. Anyway, regardless of what you choose to pick up first, you draw one card, resolve it, and then draw and resolve the other one.

2. Nowhere in the rules is stated that Dracula is allowed to turn face-up a card on his trail, so, I'd say no, you can't to this. The only ways for Dracula to play a face-up card is when he's forced to say his next move or when he enters a Hunter location to attack the Hunter.

3 & 4. Correct. As long as you stay at Castle Dracula, you keep on regenerating. Please note that in case you Hide there, you play the Hide card face-up as well. No encounters on Hide, though.

Julia said:

Wow, that is really powerful. Despite what all has been said about Dracula being weak before I bought this game, I wonder how many of them knew how capable he was of being nearly invincible if used right. First we misused Lord Godalming's double dice against Dracula a few games, then it was we realized Dracula gets +1 against bitten non-Mina Hunters, and then sea cannot be searched by Hunter figures, and finally Dracula can regenerate about 9 health even without the probability of encounters maturing and forcing his cards to fall off his track, which would then entitle him to yet more regeneration!

I am only left to concede Dracula is an underestimated beast to the board gaming community and their ignorance builds his empire ever more quickly.

Tromdial said:

LG has double dice only against the minions, not against the Count.

Anyway, if I might step in, if you think Dracula's power is great, you should stop using the houserule of putting an encounter on the first card on his trial. There is a specific reason of game balance behind the "not putting an encounter on the first card": it's done to avoid Dracula stay still on the spot, with a new vampire on the card, and Hunters unable to use Newspaper report because it's Dracula's actual position

And yes, Castle Dracula is really good for restoring your energies. The main point is that, unless you have something to sneak past the Hunters, none will enter that place, but wait for you in Galati / Klausenburg to stake you to death. With two stakes, your dead anyway as soon as you leave your castle. Plus, if Sister Agatha is in play, even trying to flee is a major pain

Julia said:

Isn't Dracula required to move on his turn, though? I thought that was the whole point behind the Hide card - to allow him to pick the same location twice in a row. Even if he can just camp there, his trail isn't growing so the vampire will never mature. He's basically just waiting for someone to find him and geek him.

Julia said:

My quote loosely is repeated by your correction, i.e. we're both stating the same thing. Maybe I was too vague on my behalf, but we agree.

True, he is getting pretty powerful now as I understand the technical rules more and more. I plan on rereading the rules book sometime in the very near future to be sure I haven't missed any other small details. I feel we might keep that one house rule though anyways because for three reasons: we've played with it from the very beginning, it's a congratulatory bonus for Dracula if he draws one of them in his first five and it has only been done once in more than a dozen games now, and lastly it gives Hunters more an incentive to find Dracula as soon as possible and some added to challenge for the good guys.

Steve-O said:

Hmm. I'm not sure I understand your question. If you play Dracula's Power cards, those push slowly your location off the track, and they also count as having "moved" for the movement step. Eventually the vampire will mature. For example, the one time I, or anyone else for that matter, got a vampire on the first turn (again, house rule), I chose the little island of Cagliari to begin my vampire's maturation. I then used Hide and equipped with a Fog, then Dark Called 3rd turn, then used Feed on 4th turn. I still had to use some actual movement cards after, but using the powers took half the movement required to mature. *Shrugging shoulders* I think it's a good tactic. Plus, staying in the same spot gives the Hunters a tough time locating your actual spot, or if at Castle Dracula, you will make up for it, I think, in regeneration and +1 bonus.

Tromdial said:

Yep, that's the point. If you're lucky, you got the Vampire on the first turn and you start in Cagliari (by the way, Cagliari is a city, not an island; the island's name is Sardinia). This means that until you have to put the fifth card on your trail, there are very, very, very few chances for the Hunters to spot you (only Hypnosis and the card allowing you to choose two locations on the map). If you don't place any encounter over the first card, then the reward is +1 point on your track when the new day dawns; otherwise this could very likely mean +3 on the track in 6+ movements. Which is kinda unfair, to me.

But anyway, the only important thing is that you and your pals have a great time playing :-)

Steve-O said:

I think you might get confused with the Double Back card. Hide is played as a normal location card (the back of the card is identical to any card in the location deck), and you put an encounter on it, again as a normal location card (with the only exception that encounters on Hide do not mature). So the trial lenghtens, and the Vampire eventually present on cards played before is one step closer to drop off the track. Actually, Hide is a great card: the less you move, the lower the chances Hunters can cross your path

Julia said:

Cagliari (cool to know about the island is Sardinia) was a one-time use. I will never use that island-city again unless I feel enough predictability has passed. Hired Scouts really does work very well. One of my friends (the one who is devious at playing Dracula) guessed correctly I was in Manchester only after having my second move. I've even done the same with Sense of Emergency late game (Dracula was like ). Also, in the past, it doesn't matter how soon Dracula gets his vampire points but at what critical moment can Dracula be found and staked to death. We've had a lot of games where Dracula had almost won and then someone found his trail, Sense of Emergency'ed, and then ended it even when Dracula had nearly full health.

Julia said:

No, that's not my point.

What you said seemed to imply that Dracula could put down one location card and stay there for as many turns as he wanted, without moving, without playing any more location cards to his trail, and that this was the reason there was a rule against putting an encounter on the first location card.

What I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure Dracula MUST put down a new location card every turn, and thus extend his trail. (Although I do admit it has been a long time since I played this game.) The purpose of Hide would be to do this without actually changing his location. I was also saying that even if Dracula COULD camp on one location for several turns, the hypothetical New Vampire placed there wouldn't mature if he did, because it wouldn't be getting any closer to the end of his trail without new location cards being played.

You and I are usually on the same wavelength about most things, so let me know if I've got my wires crossed somehow. =)

Steve-O said:

Dracula can stay in place if he plays Hide or Feed or Dark Call. Because of this, Castle Dracula's location ability triggers, as it is board dependent, not the card itself dependent on the regeneration and +1 combat bonus.

Also never realized that bitten hunters had to keep at least one revealed Event and Item card revealed at all times, especially Mina who is always bitten. I am rereading the manual, for sure.

Steve-O said:

Sorry Steve if my words were confusing. Nope, I was never intentioned in saying that; you're right when you say that Dracula *must* place a card on the trail (the only case where the trail does not become longer is when you Double back one of the card in the Trail). I'll try to word this better. Dracula starts in City A. He is NOT allowed to place an encounter on the card. Then:

Turn 1: he plays Hide and places an encounter on that card. Encounters on Hide never mature
Turn 2: he plays Dark Call
Turn 3: he plays Feed

At this point, Dracula has 4 cards on the trail, but this is not a real issue for the Hunters, since there are no encounters that can be matured. But Dracula has also the great advantage that the most common "revealing cards on the track" Event of the deck (Newspaper report) is technically worthless because it can't be used to reveal Dracula's actual position. So, this could be a good scheme to follow if you start with very bad encounters and want to make Hunters waste some cards.

Viceversa, if Dracula has a new Vampire and another good encounter (like Bats, or Fog), he can start in City A.

Turn 1: he moves to City B and places the new Vampire on the new card. This encounter clearly can mature
Turn 2: he plays Hide + Fog
Turn 3: he plays Dark Call
Turn 4: he plays Feed

It's very similar to the first situation, but in this case you're vulnerable to Newspaper reports, and this means that Hunters can move towards the location where the new Vampire is hidden

Tromdial's suggested houserule says that Dracula is allowed to place an encounter on the very first card of the trial. In this way, as long as he remains in City A, he is immune to Newspaper reports, the trail grows longer AND the encounter can be matured, and I was saying that, by playing in this way, you could score three points very easily in the first 6 turns, which can be game breaking

Hope this clarifies my previous post!

Julia said:

Yes, thank you, that does clear things up for me. =)

I guess I wasn't paying as much attention to the thread as I thought, since that completely flew past me.

Steve-O said:

I'm glad of this :-)