Hi, I am currently running a campaign including a lot of official FFG modules (Currently am on Haarlock's Legacy) Already have a problem, though the module says it is good for almost every level of gameplay, and my team is semi-high tier (rank VI) I have this very pesky problem with Telepathy Psyker, who destroys almost every plot in there.

Thanks to use of Dominate power, Compell and Projection, he can be everywhere in a SOLAR SYSTEM, and cast any of Telepathy powers pool including most deadly ones. Being on Quaddis, in the early begining, thanks to projection he managed to infiltrate political powers, call for help, reaching almost any astropath in his vicinity and walk in enemy territory freely Dominating people, reading in their minds unrevealing whole lots of plot and skipping whole chunks of modules, turning Tattered Fates - a survival horror so to speak... into absurdly easy cakewalk of manipulation.

Now... I know I could just send a lot of threats to his boddy left behind, just for sake of it, but I am not a fan of cheep tricks, unless I got some solid plot or situational back up.

Now... it seems odd and totaly overpowered to me to see this fella just walk arround in his ghost form commanding people and abusing power. Of course against the enemies of the imperium, and antagonists of the module.

So my question is: is there a limit to powers a psyker can do while using projection, or how to limit his distance of operation? How the hell does it works, can he simply think of anyone, appear anywhere and do whatever he likes like it kinda states in core handbook and errata?

Common enemies have their stats about 33 to 44. Our psyker has Will Power score of 63, scoring overbleeds for his powers, he is pretty much unbeatable when making oposed WP test to banish him. But than... if you banish his projection, he can simply appear again! Pulling same trick out his sleave... What's there to stop them?

Can anyone tell me how this Projection power works exactly and what it allows psyker to do? And how to limit this without pulling out your own cheep tricks of equiping every single trooper with null-field or something.

Currently it's one of most gamebraking careers I've seen. Also how to deal with Dominate Power and beasts? Can you use it on them or not? Rulebook does not state any true answer, and whenever I put my chaps against any kind of monster, like a giant T-Rex like in Deathworld jungle... instead of having an atmosphere of threat, chace and wild survival horror, I got my psyker own his ass with exceeding Will Power stat and forcing the creature to pretty much listen what he wants. At some point we feel rest of the team is really obsolete, he can do same things with waaay better results.

I don't want to put some counter-psychic stuff in underhive ganger base just for sake of making it more difficult for him, cause I see it as gamebraking, and really giving the feel GM tries to slow him down on purpose when there is no chance antagonists should have any of such counter-devices.

Currently Haarlock's Legacy adventures are soooo far from the aimed plot it's pointless to run the module already. Please help cause I'm kinda fed up with any mystery and investigation being solved by a mind-reading ghost who gets to the gist of things so fast we could have an ending of a scenario on the same session we started it, skipping to the end in first hour. (I know the starting antagonists of the plot - being just troops for the meat grinder, have no resistance to his psychic powers or suck at this... and reall kingpin that's behind it all is already skilled enaugh to stop intrusion of psycher's mind... so it's kinda obvious that whoever he encounters that can deffend against his psychic eyes is pretty much the bad guy of the story - "that's the guy we got to question and take down" ... "What? We cant? He must be a powerfull psyker himself..." ... " and if there is a psyker powerfull enaugh to stand behind our case and oppose us, that means it's pretty much illegal, dangerous and has something to do with the evil cults, deamons and so on..." You get what I mean, I guess. And if you analyse modules, they are all pretty much build like that.)

First, read up on the "Closer than flesh" sidebar among the Telepathy powers.

Consider the kind of scum he uses his powers on, and then kick yourself for not dishing out those Insanity and Corruption points like free lunch.

Then consider how people in power react to having a dirty witch mess with their head

Also keep in mind, there are many ways in which to screw with Psykers.

Darth Smeg said:

Pretty much this exactly. It sounds like the psyker has had far too easy a time of just using their powers without real consequence (maybe they've rolled well and avoided serious phenomena). As per the Closer Than Flesh sidebar, a telepethy based psyker really should be fast tracked to insanity if they choose to not be careful and prudent in their use of powers.

I imagine eventually, the parties targets and enemies will find out that there is a powerful telepath in the party, and somehow create a trap. Perhaps hand wave some form of mental conditioning that someone can be subjected to, that will cause serious physical harm to the psyker. Or perhaps an individual that has been lied to by his allies about their movements, thus throwing off the parties investigation.

Darth Smeg said:

This is exactly what I was going to say.

If you are a criminal mastermind in 40K how much would you tell your minions?

How aware are the bad guys that there is a psyker after them?

How open has the psyker been in using his power?

Keep in mind that Projection leaves behind a very vulnerable, unaware body.

Psychic Phenomena or Perils - Enforce them with a vengeance.

Have someone tip off some Witch Hunters.

Closer than Flesh, Closer than Flesh, Closer than Flesh!!!!!

While the power doesn't cover it, all the books talk of how much disembodied psykers attract warp entities. An increase in warp entities may not bother your psyker, but it could ring some warning bells or cause problems for other psykers.

Darth Smeg said:

I did read through those topics a while ago, and I would totaly find them helpfull if they were even remotely related to the case of my question. Unfortunately my psyker isn't a complete idiot - he is a min-maxer, a guy who knows the lore of WH40k very well, know exactly what he can or cannot do.

I wasn't asking how to get them in trouble, or out of them, if they cause some... they don't that's the problem.

My problem isn't and never was about them having an easy way arround, rather SKIPPING whole CHUNKS of Modules and Adventures. And in this regard Closer than Flesh is a complete BS and useless sidebar that gives them even more means to skipp the story.

When psyker get's into his ghost form he can walk arround eveyrwhere casting his telepathy powers. He already has fair ammount of IP and CP and so he knows that IF he scans someone and gains additional point, THAT MEANS he's THE GUY. You know what I mean? He doesn't need to get into one's mind to know stuff, most of the time, he won't, but if he doesn't, that gives him a hint - a normal law abiding citizen of the imperium, won't have or need any kind of psychic protection or even psychic training to resist psychic intrusion, so when they encounter one who does that is enaugh to know HE has something to HIDE - enaugh for the rest to concentrate on someone without really going through investigation.

Psychic phenomena - doesn't work if he makes his rolls on fettered, and he has enaugh time. Threatning his body doesn't work either, our plaers know WELL that his body is threatened, so they spend a session trying to find safest place EVER, guard his body like Lenin's mummy and than allow psyker to walk freely everywhere in his ghost form and do his magic stuff.

All your advices are good as for causing trouble to psyker and making his life miserable... I already GOT that covered but still it reveals major plotlines to use such tricks. Mind conditioning, means psyker would be harmed or repelled, but it means also that who they face has access to this kind of training - again, meaning he has something to hide. Null-rods, null-fields? No common hive ganger or lawfull citizen would have such thing... if they do, they have something to hide. And Closer Than Flesh Sidebar pretty much work to CP and IP level of 49, cause every time you encounter someone with double that amount you get those points. Our psyker has currently about 18 IP and 12 CP... if he gets another CP it means he encountered an enemy with atleast 24 CP... - guess what would be the conclusion of the team, when he wakes up in the middle of the room and says "I think I've just found our chaos cultist"

YuriPRIME said:

One thing has become abundantly clear here:

It seems very much like you're using the Fettered/Unfettered/Push rules from Ascension, which are an incomplete substitute for the full equivalents in Rogue Trader, Deathwatch and Black Crusade and which as written exacerbate existing problems with the psychic power rules.

Simply allowing the ability to use powers at 1/2 Psy Rating without risk in Dark Heresy makes things worse - Dark Heresy comes in-built with the capability to scale risk and power in the choice of how many dice you use, so adding the option to use powers Fettered is somewhat redundant in the first place, while allowing psykers to use their powers more freely than before, which is contrary to the purpose of the Fettered power level. Further, power scaling for Dark Heresy psykers is almost always linked to Willpower Bonus, meaning that the actual purpose of Fettered (using less power for less risk, but getting a smaller effect in return) is lost in translation - powers in the other games scale effects by Psy Rating instead, which means that using a power Fettered produces a weaker version of that power, but this is not the case in Dark Heresy for the reasons already described.

A few things:

1. If they're just using sheer metagaming to determine how much CP a scanned target has, alter the amount of CP the target has. You're the GM, you have carte blanche to lie to the party. You're doing this not only for the sake of their enjoyment anyway (that is assuming you're not hamstringing their successes too much), but also for your own enjoyment. Just don't railroad them too hard. But if they're using the same trick all the time to maximum effectiveness, then that shouldn't continue on. Its your job to challenge them.

2. Add more "random" effects to psychic powers, such as unstable regions to use the ghost form in. In no way related to the plot, just the fact that the veil is slightly thinner here than it is over there. Staying too long here or there in ghost form will generate CPs/IPs/attract warp entities, for no reason beyond "it just does." Basically, given that the warp is chaos incarnate, it follows that the rules regarding the use of warp powers should be subject to change on the basis of GM fiat. Certainly it should broadly work the same way, but maybe for once they get CPs for scanning some random guy, or maybe get more than 1 CP in a scan. Simply put, change it up.

3. If they're just hauling in anyone with too many CPs/psychic training/access to null gear, then clearly they're going to piss off someone who is actually a lot stronger, and totally unrelated to their investigation. The party could just as easily be stumbling into another group of undercover acolytes. Going in guns blazing without an investigation is likely to make some real enemies, and cause a longer term political backlash among their inquisitors.

4. As N0-1 said, use of fettered/unfettered/pushed is a bit inappropriate with DH style psychic abilities. The player may be terrified at the notion he can always trigger phenomena, but as well he should be.

5. Have an exterior entity throw off the results of scans. That is to say, have some warp entity take an interest in the player (he is apparently using this ghost form thing quite often), and have it subvert the information he actually acquires from targets he scans. Obviously make this take a while to notice, and don't have it totally ruin any information they gather. But consider having it alter various details about what the psyker uncovers using telepathy. Perhaps he gets minor details wrong (an uncovered memory of a particular individual has the wrong hair color, right/left handedness). Perhaps he misjudges ability (is made unaware the target is a psyker). This is a bit trickier, and obviously could lead to players just getting annoyed at the GM, especially if the issue of the strength of telepathy has been brought up at the table.

6. Kindly ask the player (away from the group) to tone it down. Divination has always been considered the bane of an RPG settings story. Inform the player that his actions are making it harder for you to continue the game.

7. (this next one is not meant to be rude, but it is just another point) Become a "better" GM. Roll with their punches better. If they bypassed one part of the investigation, then rename the material they skipped and recycle it later. There is no mandate from on high that you follow a module to the letter. Think it through and look for oppurtunities to use scenes otherwise bypassed.

8. Kill the offending player character. Nobody is going to blame the enemy for gunning for the psyker. Those guys are scary.

9. Enemies have fate points (from time to time), use them to subvert the actions of players (behind the screen of course, don't let them find out those guys have Touched by the Fates, as that too is a massive neon sign over them).

10. On that note, tell the party to quit metagaming. Using the "did I get CP?" mechanic to determine if an NPC is a bad guy is really cheesy. If this persists, track the players' IPs/CPs for them. They don't need to know these numbers, just their effects (mutations, mental conditions, etc.). In fact, it almost could make for a pretty cool game where players can't cheese things out by knowing their exact values. Even better, give them a floating +/- 5-10 points in both, so for things like fear, they might occasionally ignore fear (due to IPs), and then sometimes fall prey to the exact same fear level. Having these be unpredictable is terrifying enough.

Really I want to highlight point 3 here. If the party is so paranoid that they're jumping on anything that could defend themselves from psychic intrusion, then they will eventually piss off something larger than them. Just because the module doesn't say there's an acolyte cell present, doesn't mean there shouldn't be. Perhaps they are agents of a rogue trader, sent there in secret to monitor something.

It really does sound like you just need to add in more red herrings. Also, whats to say that some random piece of warp tainted hardware isn't just passively giving out CPs to the local residents? Their metagaming of "I gained a CP so they must be bad" is pretty useless if you say that everyone in this underhive has over 25 CP. Just need to make a reason as to why the whole region shouldn't be purged. Obviously this is a bit extreme of an example (an underhive where everyone has 25 CP is going to be an absolute mess), but my point is if a sensor is being too useful, it can be dulled by an abundance of false positives.

When psyker get's into his ghost form he can walk arround eveyrwhere casting his telepathy powers. He already has fair ammount of IP and CP and so he knows that IF he scans someone and gains additional point, THAT MEANS he's THE GUY.

Actually, it only means he is one of THE GUYS. Considering that by BC standards, every true disciple of Chaos starts with 100 IP and CP and works his way up from there, gaining additional points may not mean quite as much.
Also, are you playing a radical campaign? Because a "fair amount" of CP might be considered problematic for a puritan...

KommissarK said:

1)We all agreed to play by the rules included in core rulebook and supplements. If it's official and comes from FFG and we bought it - we got it in, working. Perhaps I trusted the psychic power level rules too much before actually playtesting them first, but unfortunately it's done. We agreed for it on the begining, and pulling out chunks of rules right now seems unfair to my players. We agreed to play by the rules, cause those are also old WFRP players and what they liked about that system was: "If we planned it and worked hard, we earned it." They are smart people who know well that this setting is one which punishes fools and rewards wise and cunning types, so they don't look kindly when GM just messes with the rules for sake of making their lifes miserable, that's when they feel betried. I already tried altering CP level and unfortunately when some hive ganger had too much of CP they well knew, even after an adventure, they had too much CP stored on their character cards and than started asking when they got it. Big metagaming fuss was exact.ly about that fact, because they feel they can't trust GM to play by the rules, they metagame, to doublecheck. I myself feel like it's simply bad GMing and cheating and when your players know the rules, they can feel it too. And no one likes playing, let's say video games with a big cheater on the server. They are at rank 6, soon rank 7 - and as they say they did fair amount of crawling in mud and their own blood, so now they can walk upstraight. If I hid the CP from them.

2)As for random stuff, in campaign I run right now, Tattered Fates adventure, Haarlock's Legacy, the thing is the atmosphere of the module is build arround mystery and getting know various stuff about dark history of the planet in small chunks, at first our heroes are just a bunch on some distant backwater world that seems fairly harmless... and it is aimed to unveal those mystery parts and darkness served on small plates every now and than. Thing is too much of an insight in the dark mystery of what's going on, warp instability of the town which was suppose to be just there, already uncovers the idea what are we facing in like first half an hour.

3)They are not going in gun blazing, but they know who to keep their eyes on. Of course the sittuation is later on assessed, problem is the mix of those powers they use and some logic with the psychic-resistance equipment is giving them too much hints.

4)As mentioned, we unforrtunately agreed to work with all official rules from all oficial books we got. It's bit too late to back out this idea now.

5)That is quite a usefull advice - I'll look into that and try it out.

6)We all agreed that if you work hard to make your character really good at what he/she does and you win over you enemies - you win over your enemies. If the bad guy looses the roll and you win - you earned it. I already tried explaining the concept of sundering the mechanics for sake of atmosphere and while one group liked it the other, the one I'm running game for currently, doesn't. The question is, why do they even care for spending xp and developing their characters, buying stuff, upgrading if GM scales gutter-tier gangers and others to the level where our characters are as much trheat for them as they were on rank 1-2. The part they enjoy is the feeling of progress, this campaign lasts for more than year now and the fact they can reflect how deadly it was to face gangers with simple bodyglove, mesh vest and hunting rifle, and how now they take down heretics like team of SpecOps. Not to mention this game is suppose to reward smart moves. But our Assassin and commisar developed through this year slowly, very slowly, gaining small boons for every little advantage, talent, upgrade and on, so they do things still old way but more efficient. The psyker however is whole another story - he investigated like them just fine and I had no problem with dealing with all the mindscans and stuff... It's the Projection - a power which allows you to be and go, appear, see and witness everything in same Solar system, that is a gamebraking issue.

7)I do reuse the material if I have a chance, but let me give you an example here. In adventure from Purge the Unclean, Joyus Choir I belive there is a scene where you meet some guy, merc I belive, Vorlin Orday in a bar to get info about administratum representatives involved with JC. If players already discovered the names by other means before even meeting with Orday, (what required a lot of out-adventure planning and making stuff on the roll) this scene becomes useless for the time being.

8)Let me put it this way... every GM likes to have smart players who come up with clever, actually well working ideas and plan stuff really neatly... And now to quote Yuri Orlov from Lord of War: "There are two tragedies in your life. One is when you don't get what you want, the other is when you get it." They arent fools who rush into scenes shooting everything, they are sneaky and cunning. Killing such type is harder than you think.

9)Another good advice I'll try that out repelling psychic intrusions.

10)That's again the issue that my party want's to know everyone's playing fair, of course If I tell them all of a sudden they gain psychic instability, mental sickness, or mutation they would want to know when, how and where, and why of course. Especially that this wasn't settled on the very first session. And if whole group didn't agreed it's pretty much an unfair move for either me, or them to use any kind of options that weren't discussed.

In conclusion that's why I am asking about Projection power - up till the moment our psyker got this power, everything was alright. I did just fine with balancing out everything, they were threatened often, had to fight for their lifes, but now it seems just ridiculous when you can manifest anywhere in a Solar System. My question is exactly about this single power, how to bound it, do you have to know a person you wat to manifest your ghost form next to? Or something like this? Or can you just fly arround like Neo in Matrix... this is mad and only thing that ruins my game. With Mindscan and Dominate they still had to get in the group of enemies, getting in danger, getting dirty and so on. With projection they are free to screw arround without much threat. Being even far away, or on a spaceship, on an orbit, in a safest bunker on the planet... and just walk arround with one-man-psychic-periscope.

First, it sounds like you are GMing through committee.

10)That's again the issue that my party want's to know everyone's playing fair, of course If I tell them all of a sudden they gain psychic instability, mental sickness, or mutation they would want to know when, how and where, and why of course. Especially that this wasn't settled on the very first session. And if whole group didn't agreed it's pretty much an unfair move for either me, or them to use any kind of options that weren't discussed.

All your players have to agree to gain CP's, a mutation, or come across an area of warp instability? Really?

4)As mentioned, we unforrtunately agreed to work with all official rules from all oficial books we got. It's bit too late to back out this idea now.

This is a poor excuse to allow Fettered/Push psychic rules. Ascension states those rules are for Primaris Psykers, as they are trained to channel warp energies more safely. Yes, that is the rule set that the other lines evolved into, that doesn't make it a good idea to use them for non-ascended psykers.

1). . . I already tried altering CP level and unfortunately when some hive ganger had too much of CP they well knew, even after an adventure, they had too much CP stored on their character cards and than started asking when they got it. Big metagaming fuss was exact.ly about that fact, because they feel they can't trust GM to play by the rules, they metagame, to doublecheck. I myself feel like it's simply bad GMing and cheating and when your players know the rules, they can feel it too. And no one likes playing, let's say video games with a big cheater on the server. They are at rank 6, soon rank 7 - and as they say they did fair amount of crawling in mud and their own blood, so now they can walk upstraight. If I hid the CP from them.

How do your players know what a proper level of corruption is for a ganger and what it too high a level?

This, in my opinion, is also a sign of bad players. They need to trust the GM, not second guess/metagame/rules lawyer him. Just because they know the rules doesn't make them automatically right or the GM a cheat just because they don't like something that happened. I would specifically start throwing out horribly corrupt gangs and small cults that have absolutely nothing to do with the plot. Distract the players from their task with something unrelated. Let them take down the corrupt Red Grox gang, then drop the hammer on them for their actions by alerting the people they were investigating.

ItsUncertainWho said:

And where did I said such thing? They have to agree on nothing, but they want to know what they gain is according to rules and not made up just to make their lifes miserable. If they opened a book filled with chaos sorcery that got them CP it's ok... If they got it from all kinds of taints and rules provided in book or even my own gimmicks that are justified by the setting and logic it's ok. But If I was to give them a handfull of CPs for every little thing they do, just to make their life ****... that would be pointless, They and I experienced such GMs, and agreed to not run things like that, cause that's being just an awfull GM to your players and does not give much fun out of session. If your team is full of idiots, and they get into trouble constantly, you get fairly easy on them cause they are a threat to their lifes enaugh... but when guys play smart, why would you do cheesy and cheap tricks just to throw logs in their way? That skips the point of this system which is suppose to reward smart gaming and punish stupid.

BEFORE campaign started, we sat together and agreed on some terms and how things would work so there won't be pulling or putting things in from the book. But again it's beside the point... the question isn't about this it's about Projection telepathy power. As I mentioned every thing was fine up till the moment he got that Power, which rules are very unspecified and opened for interpretation on so many levels.

ItsUncertainWho said:

Well, the thing is in Ascension Psykik Powers section it is stated that Psyker Primaris is more experienced and better trained, and than the thing about power levels is stated in separate paragraphs... The descryption for those rules are really watered down and people of countries that doesn't have english as their native language, may have some problems with getting everything. Some rules in Ascension specify they are only for Ascended Characters, some don't. I would love to see an errata for that or something cause if it is written somewhere in more understandable form I would love to present it to my players. Still It's not the question stated.

ItsUncertainWho said:

a)As well established agents of the inquisition they should have some basic knowledge in this regard, at least knowledge broad enaugh to know that there is some seed of corruption in everyone, some stronger, some weeker Psyker for that matter should at least know what dangers await him, even when it's only narrative representation of 'he's been tainted or I feel nothing' or 'his soul is twisted with unholy energies... you can feel it through the warp'. And from the player standpoint at some point you just know when GM, just because he wasn't able to get you any other way, gives you ridiculous stuff so that you suffer for being good and proffesional at what you do.

b)We all have experienced sessions with GMs who did that, the tricks many of you stated above and in other topics. Giving gangers or various people just too much of power, strange equipment, insanity, corruption, changing roll effects just because. It didn't worked. Im playing fair and they are playing fair.

c)As for Hive Gang distraction - it's cool I apreciate the advice, will try to put it to work. But unfortunately going back to the original question, I am not asking for advice to distract players or put them into trouble. I have a module I want to run and a problem with ONE of the powers - called: Projection. As I mentioned, so I'll mention again, the rules for this power and what it allows psyker to do is very, very, very opened and unspecified. That's why I'm asking here, in this section. I'm not asking in GM section for advice with psykers, I'm not asking in House Rules for suggestions how to change things, I'm asking for official guidelines how to use this power and what limits it has exactly.

Problem is: When you get into Ghost form, can you wish to appear anywhere and travel wherever you like just like that? Or do you need some kind of person to concentrate on? How can someone banish the ghost form with conventional ways, without null-fields, psychic resistance, etc. Can you cover that with simple WP test. How many such tests can you make if you fail the first one? And what there is to stop the psyker from reapearing even if you banished him somehow. He can just once again fall asleep, go meditate, whatever, and come back as his spirit form, or what is there to forbid him that?

So basically before you got into a race, you agreed with the other runners to shoot yourself in the foot. You are now taking issue with the fact you're falling behind.

I really don't want to be rude, but the book clearly defers full control as needed to the GM.

For the projection, I think the answer would be with the lines "but it can also be very dangerous as creatures native to the immaterium and other psykers may be able to directly attack your mind". A projecting psyker moves directly within the Warp, right in the place where all the big nasties are that always wanted to munch on his soul - only now he presents himself on a silver platter. Present the Warp as the dangerous place it is and the psyker may voluntarily abstain from projecting when it's not absolutely necessary.

As for the Fettering rules, while most of them speak about the psyker (most likely for stylistic reasons), the opening paragraph indeed notes that we're talking about Primaris Psykers here who learn these techniques.

I agreed that any psyker who projects that often needs constant visiting by warp daemons- bigger and badder warp daemons as he uses more powers to combat the ones that attack him and thus shines more and attracts more monsters.

Heck, don't even bother stating up the wounds for most of them- 75% grapple attack, 15 Strength bonus which is followed by a swallow whole ability that instantly destroys the psyker, leaving behind the empty shell of a body.

KommissarK said:

What you sadly fail to notice of all things said is that again, I must repeat myself, I have no problem with making life of my players difficult if needed without cheesy tricks, I didn't asked for how to spend CP, or IP, how to cast perils of the warp or give people lots of perrils. I've asked about one specific power and exact rules governing it. Because I don't have problems with Mind Scan, Dominate, and so on... but with PROJECTION power that stands behind them.

And again, perhaps I have to put it simpler, we agreed to play fully by the rules and so far we all have fun, I have fun running it, players have fun playing it, if you havent noticed. And thanks god we don't need to adress this nonsense 'GM is pretty much there to invent new ways of making life miserable for players'... we've been through that, even long before DH, back in the days of Warhammer Fantasy RP 2nd edition. And we were sick of this, playing fairly is quite a challenge and provides players with lots of rewards, it is not cheep, that's for sure. I dare you to try that one day, you'd be surprised how much challenging it is to run. There is just one thing that messes things up - unspecified rules - especially if the module isn't really build arround about explaining coupla things it or the rulebook should. (hint - players are not for GM, GM is not for players, two sides needs to complement, or else... well I know I would quit. Not much fan of masochist attitude).

For instance. The projection states, that anyone who is of negative approach to psyker may try a WP test to banish him back to his body... But is there some cooldown you have to take? Rest brake? Can you just use your power and appear in the same place again? If you get bannished what stops you then from comming back just few moments later? How fast can you move in your ghost form? Are you like a normal being just in spiritual realm, walking, burdened with warp? Or can you fly chacing a bypassing Valkry? Can you wish to appear in a place you never been before? Or do you have to imagine or recall the place?

PS. Seriously - I'll write it again just to be sure you guys gat it, I'm not asking for advice (hint - it's Rule Question Section, not GMing one) I'm asking for specified rules for a power, that allows some mechanics to skip a lot of module content. I'm not asking for advice for how to make player's lifes difficult, had it covered for long time now, and repeated many times, both me and players are having fun the way we play and we enjoy it - though I am sure many of you can't stand that, but, well, sorry it's just the way it is. It's about one power, and the fact some official modules are not really fit for them.

Apologies- I am afraid then, in that aspect of the game, we are as limited as you are. Projection is not addressed in the Errata.

As written, there's no cool-down or anything. He can keep on casting it forever if he'd like.

You can write FFG and ask them directly. Maybe they'll be of more help.

have you ever considered making a real key person an untouchable? also, who knows whether or not a person made a dark pact and has a demon living in his noggin that does not take to kindly to psykers poking around in his head, or similar nasty things, remember you control the action, whatever you do though, don't make it a regular habit to just stop this guy, use in moderation and with closer then flesh, and soon your psyker will know the dangers of poking around inside peoples skulls,

You're not playing by the rules if you allow non ascended psykers to use the fettered/push rules.

As for corruption and mutations, a new eye or tentacle doesn't pop into existance the moment you gain 31 CPs. It will slowly grow over a period of weeks, and pinpointing the exact time that caused it will be tricky (unless it was a particularly stand-out encounter with deamons and all that).

In the underhive and other nasty places you will often find many mutants. Outcasts from imperial society. As mutations require 31+ CPs, it would seem that many "people" do in fact walk around with these levels of CPs.

As for the Projection power, I'd say you need to be able to picture the destination in your mind. That means having been there before, or having some picture of the place. I don't see the power as letting you "fly" around like an etheral superman, as the power does not mention speed or other variables you might need to manage such "flight". And it says "This power lets you communicate with any creature you know well (such as a companion or your Inquisitor), and is somewhere within the same solar system." Note it does not say you can GO anywhere, it is the targets mind that is "where" you "go". So just projecting around the hive looking for people and ambushes seems waaay out of scope of what this power will let you do.

This is more like Yoda and ObiWan "talking" to Lukes mind, even though they're not around.

In case I wasn't clear, and to adress exactly your problem, I will exemplify.

The following is NOT a legal use of the Projection power:

"I use Projection to zip through the locked metal doors and see if there are anyone on the other side. I then zip up through the roof and search upstairs"

The following IS a correct application:

"I use Projection to communicate with Adept Godolkin who stayed behind at our base of operations, back in the city"

Darth Smeg saves the day! Hurrah!

I will keep this in mind when my psykers decide to start throwing the power around- granted, mine don't fetter- so they don't use their powers nearly as often hehe (I do allow them to push though... so far no one's ever wanted too.. )

@YuriPRIME

Now... did you intend on getting any solution out of this thread or did you just post for the mud-slinging? Because I posted a serious drawback of the power entirely within the published rules which you seem to have ignored entirely...

Darth Smeg said:

Allright, that is actualy very helpful solution to my problem, and tha'ts the interpretation of rules I can seriously discuss with my peeps. Thanks, thought something about that but wasn't sure how it goes in some novels. I've heard Eisenhorne used this power and so I looked for answers in there, but still it was blurry.

@Cifer

I ignored your post entirely for a specific reason, namely your solution is compleetly irrelevant to point of my inquiry. As I mentioned dozens of times now, I have no problems with CP or making life of my players hard with various game provided mechanics. I got that covered although it buggs me sometimes not to overuse same specific mean, but it's ok. I asked about ONE specific power and exact interpretation of their rules.

I'll quote the original:

The projection states, that anyone who is of negative approach to psyker may try a WP test to banish him back to his body… But is there some cooldown you have to take? Rest brake? Can you just use your power and appear in the same place again? If you get bannished what stops you then from comming back just few moments later? How fast can you move in your ghost form? Are you like a normal being just in spiritual realm, walking, burdened with warp? Or can you fly chacing a bypassing Valkry? Can you wish to appear in a place you never been before? Or do you have to imagine or recall the place?

Have you adressed this? No? Oh dear…

I think that the players should not be using the knowledge of gaining CPs to identify possible enemies. The players should be playing based on their character's knowledge rather than the player's knowledge. It seems to me that the number of CPs one has falls under the player knowledge category.

I know that this does not deal with your main question, but still it is something that should always be taken into consideration when determining what the players can or cannot do.

Yuri, just a small question: Do your players think, that their characters run around with a CP-meter in their HUD? Or some sort of CP-dosimeter on their breast, showing them when and how badly they got warped, time and GPS-coordinates included?

If they screw you by metagaming, by letting their characters act and react on information which the characters simply do not posses, you are allowed to screw them back.

No gameplan ever survives contact with the rulemongering metagaming min/maxer. Never ever paint yourself into this corner again and accep[t no silly rules that you have to use all the rules as written. If they are broken then they are broken and as GM you should be able to alter things when needed.

I advise you to read up on the talent Mental Fortress to give the psyker some nasty surprise now and then. But in the end it is a smallish stopgap and you are better of discussing with the players that Projection ruins your campaign and you need to get rid of it or quit the campaign.