Join us as we discuss an historic FAQ update and review the latest chapter pack here.

The Satin Discard combo needs now at least 4 cards to work, which isn't really effective imo.

I guess the last real AGoT combo deck around is the Sand Snake one, though it's still quite fragile.

It's a pity that FFG somehow fears a too heavy combo environment in the game.

Halfway thru the cast.

Two small tidbits:

1. aside from Drowned Prophet the other character that is also 'removed from game' is Obara Sand.

2. Meera cannot blank plot cards (RE: blanking Twisted Fate plot).

I have to disagree that FFG wants to kill all combo decks. It seems to me that they just don't want combos that are too easy to abuse. You can still do uber-maester decks, you can still do Satin-Mill decks, and you can do the Sand Snake combos. FFG just makes the combos a little harder to do, which I think is perfectly fine. In my opinion, no combo should take less than 4 cards; especially in a game like AGoT where you tend to draw quite a few cards.

Ah, yes, good catch on Obara. I'd rather forgotten about her. Lol, and then of course this weekend, I played against someone using her. Go figure.

Also, good catch on Meera. Sorry about that one. Of course, that once again begs the question of "Why include the cannot be blanked text?" If the only way to blank it is through the fairly random chance of having an opponent happen to play Forgotten Plans at the same time, then it really shouldn't be an issue. Even in a melee game, if you can convince another opponent to play Forgotten Plans in order to help you out, then you're working the table no differently than asking a player to military someone else instead of you and in that case, I'm A OK with it.

As per combo, I think Brett feels much more strongly about it than I do. Personally, I'm on the side that says FFG just appears to be slowing things down rather than knocking them out completely. This is actually a bit more lenient behavior than they had in the CCG days when combos were errata'ed out of existence entirely instead. Granted, even with the somewhat more lenient policies that seem to be in place now, I'm not certain if any of the various combo decks are really viable either. Though someone like Dobbler will probably come along to prove me wrong.

I have yet to see FFG banning combo that wasn't abuse of game mechanics - uber maesters should have never happened if any kind of card testing existed and same for Satin - maybe even more so since he was released after Bobby the maester won Gencon so they must have been aware of existance of endlees kneel/stand loops in the game back then.

As for cannot be blanked - who knows they might introduce some other plot blanking cards in the future so they make it future proof already.

Kennon said:

I'd much rather have that text on there "just in case" - like michaelius said, they may introduce another plot blanking effect in the future, and those stats are pretty superb. By your logic Focused Offense shouldn't have "cannot be blanked" either since the chances of it actually happening are so slim, but I'm **** glad to see it on that plot too.
I also don't think the card is as bad as suggested on the podcast; not disputing the advantage that it givs your opponent, but it would work really well in some builds (like NW with the Neutral Wall), it would be great to play on the Round you expect your opponent to Valar, and can be used well in combination with anything that lowers opponent's claim. Could also be used with the Rookeries that trigger when you win a challenge: make your challenges and trigger the Rookery off the last one ot get a "safer" plot. Martell might be fine with using it too since they have a variety of effects to deal with the negative part - Red Vengeance, BotS, remove the icons from the guys your opponent can actually win a challenge with and successfully defend the other(s)...

Oh, and as always, I enjoyed the episode!

I was about to be all hurt about the bottom 5. but looking at the pack again, its close and i really cant find much to replace em with, so ill just note a few points in their defence but it doesnt mean they arent still bottom 5...

First of all the Dothraki Stallion, enables unlimited challenges as long as you win, though it requires like 5 parts. but yeah in a "normal" deck, its not worth playing. Id still rate this above the bara one though... you can sort of "choose" when you want the horses to activate, you just have to add another character to the challenge.

Melee greyjoy choke got a huge boost this pack. the drowned crewmen is supposed to be run together with the ice fisherman, not as an alternative. in joust itd probably be overkill, thus the melee text. the sparr pretty much doubles your global choke (the other being white raven). I cant say if it is viable yet, but it looks like its worth giving a try now. wheras before i instantly dismissed the idea of melee choke.

On the melee house attachments, as a purely melee player, i will agree that the greyjoy/lannister/bara ones are more or less trash. the other 3 i think have potential.
With the true queens loyalist, sure you ensure opponents will win their power challenge, but you will always get a power out of it too. if they end up killing a character, thats a good thing too, as long as its not yours. you might even try to make a deal to give them the boon if they agree not to use it against you. not to mention you can chump swing against them and claim a power either way. saving your chunky characters for other challenges/defence.

If it werent for the PBtT decks, id say this would be the best of all 6, but the martell one has it pretty good right now.
When i build decks with no attachments in mind, i will often include 1-2 copies of an in house attachment just for the random spending the winter stores. True Queens Loyalist & In the name of the king are decent candidates for that slot imo. Taste for blood still trumps blood debt, but if i have the space id consider playing both.
All that said, true queens loyalist is still in my bottom 5. But still playable, you just have to be careful who you give it to and try to milk a deal out of it. if you manage to get 3 on a single player thats when it starts to get silly.

oshi said:

After getting TQL and Across the Summer Sea, some form of Targ challenge control sub theme has occurred. TQL is a bad card and so is Khaleesi's Faithful but both grant you power for people trying to attack you. Throw in Secret Alliance, Bones of a Child, Loyalty Money Can Buy and AtSS and you have additional challenge control without having to commit characters to a challenge. Finally, the Crown of Meereen or Kraznys mo Nakloz can be used to steal other people's melee attachments. Its like a whole tonne of bad turned into a whole deck of annoyance if not good.

playgroundpsychotic said:

What? They pretty much guarantee that you wont get challenged unless they have stealth and/or they are doing it to deliberately cripple you. Their cost keeps them from being auto include but hardly a bad choice if you can afford them. Id never play more than 1 per deck though, limited response and all that.

I had considered martell maesters using the pale steel link to play all 3 melee attachments, taste for blood, elaria, etc. maybe some day.
If it weren't for moribund rules you could kneel maester of the sun when attacked, tin link relevant melee attachment, bronze link it to your hand, and pale steel it to the attacker... I guess it still works if your opponents are actively discarding them for you.

oshi said:

No they pretty much guarantee you won't get challenged if you have 14 power. Most of the time a renown character would be more effective. They need something else to dissuade an attack. If someone really wants to slap you down, they will. If the whole table wants to take you down a peg, they will. Its not an adequate enough defender especially considering there are no Dothraki cards that are useful in defense. Compared to Euron or Doran, it fails miserably.

Having other nifty support cards does increase the value of the Faithful though. Having multiple annoyances helps especially if they can't be bypassed by a convenient keyword.

All things equal, Id sooner challenge doran or euron before i challenge the faithful. just saiyan. (Euron is all around the better character though).

A great episode againg guys.

Kind of find it funny how there was huge combo discussion and then the dothraki stallion gets the "worst card" stamp when it can be used for an infinite poer combo with assault of the kraken.

Also MTG has been errating stuff when it comes to the formats where all cards ever printed are allowed. Most of these erratas have been done to stop too powerful combos or too easy to settle combos. On top of my head I can recall erratas on: Time vault which has had so many erratas, that I have lost track of it (infinite turns at one point), Flash has seen several erratas for beeing too strong at times with comes into play effects, the "play and untap as many lands as its cost" spells have been errated twice (basicly first to stop manacombos when they were too powerful and then turned back later). Now actually that I look at a list of erratas done most of them haven't been permanent and have been reverted when they are found to be not so powerful or its harder to abuse. There are still few erratas that have stayed the same thanks to too easy combo potential they have.

oshi said:

They're not equal. When facing the Faithful backed by a Bones of the Child and perhaps a Tourney Ground, attacking the Targ player is a bad idea. Or you might decide to bite the bullet and just get it over with. Kinda like peeling off that bandaid when you know its gonna pull out a bunch of arm hair. It only hurts once.

Attacking Euron will give him cards and likely power. If you attack him multiple times, you will give him multiple cards and power. Oh and he's still standing to challenge and he's hard to kill.

Attacking Doran means you're attacking a Martell player. The question remains is not how you will get reamed, it will be the number and variety of ways you get reamed. And you might still give him power. The Faithful are in a way, just a character version of Taste for Blood. A bad version.

the major difference being that it is stealing a power, not claiming.

Its a pretty big barrier for a person to decide they are going to give away a power just so the other players can not have to throw away that power...

when challenging a controller of euron/doran/taste you are giving an advantage to them over you AND the other two players. the faithful gives them an advantage, and the attacker a disadvantage (relative to the other two players).

as i said in the beginning, unless your doing it to deliberately damage the targ player, players will opt to make the challenges in a direction that does not cost power. Or probably not make the challenge at all.

oshi said:

Taking a penalty to gain advantage for yourself is part of the game. Giving someone else excessive advantage is worse than taking a small hit to yourself. Furthermore, we're talking in terms of a card that is vulnerable to stealth, control, deadly and other bypass effects whilst cutting out other Limited Responses (and Targ has access to multiple good ones). Euron and Doran can potentially give a strong advantage to their controllers by themselves and by reinforcing existing House cards whilst not being even required to participate in the challenge. Thus they are not vulnerable to stealth and less vulnerable to other control effects.

Getting back on track, after seeing Blood Debt in action, I am somewhat interested in using TQL. Its risky to use but as I said earlier Targ has some challenge control to make things interesting.

Sure, Faithful's effect is much weaker in comparison to Euron and Doran; however, the card is a non-unique while the other two can be considered staple uniques (if not Doran, then at least Euron). If a similar effect would be attached to a staple Targ unique like Dany, Khal Drogo, etc instead, then sure you'd have to boost it to Euron/Doran levels.

Ruvion said:

Its a Limited Response. It cuts off other useful Limited Responses like Pikemen or Flame Towers. It also lacks survivability. It can't be given attachments, can't be duplicated and its not a Noble. On the positive side, it can be recurred from the dead pile like any Targ character. The introduction of Meraxes also increases the viability of Womb of the World.

I am not saying the faithful are a better card than euron/doran. they arent. I am simply saying their response effect is more of a deterrant than euron/doran. its a limited response for a reason.

I had played a deck with 3x in the name of the king. the power grab is definitely there. but it definitely encourages that player to go for you. somehow i end up with 12-14 power but with too few characters to push through the win. compared to the other 2, stacking ItNotK stacks strength as well. wheras the other 2 only give multiple instances of deadly/stealth, so you get a bigger benefit without giving them bigger boons.

Spreading them around I had considered, but i preferred the idea of just having 1 person i couldnt beat (and could chump swing against for 3 power) rather than, being weaker compared to all 3 opponents.