Hi all

Reading some of the other threads regarding the next deluxe box has got me to thinking... What if instead of a house specific box FFG designed a brand new mechanic for the game? One that did not favour one Particular house of another?

I have played a number of other FFG games in the past, and they all seem to have interesting and fun mechanics that are not easily found in other games. One of my favourites is the Game of Thrones board game. I really like the idea of the "westeros deck" in that game. For those that have never played it, the westeros deck is a series of cards that are revealed at the end of a game turn, and they represent various different events that are happening in the fictional world. Many of these events require the players to work together to avoid something bad from happening - for example, all players are required as a group to spend a certain amount of power to repell a wildling invasion. Each player gives up a secret amount of power, and all players reveal together at the same time how much power they have given to the cause. If the total amount is greater than the required number, the invasion is stopped. If it is less, then something really undesirable happens that affects everyone in the group.

I really like this mechanic as it helps suspend disbelief that although all players are opponents, they are still part of the same kingdom and must band together to fight external threats or other problems like old shortages. I also think it would be more of a melee game mechanic, rather than a joust game mechanic. It would probably make things a bit more random (melee is pretty chaotic anyway) and the spending of power would cause games to last longer (not bad in my opinion, as melee games often do not last more than 3 or 4 turns).

You could also have other events that do not require Players to work together... Of the top of my head, something that interacts win the summer and winter themes seem like a good fit for this kind of mechanic.

Just interested to see if other people would also be interested to see this kind of optional expansion.

Thanks for reading, and for being such a cool community

Do we really need to make most complicated and hardest to learn card game in existence even harder ?

michaelius said:

Probably not, but we're discussing AGoT here not L5R

Whizzwang said:

Bazinga

I doubt FFG would create a new mechanic for the game in a deluxe expansion that only appeals to Melee players and makes the game coop. I know I would not be interested in that.

I think there are a lot of house sub themes or minor houses that could be explored in a deluxe expansion.

If I had my way, FFG would take A Time for Ravens cycle and put it into a deluxe expansion. There are to many must have season cards in the cycle and new players right now just can not get. With new players coming into the game, not being able to get these cards can be frustrating. At this point if FFG does reprint the cycle, they'll basically run into the same problem with a need to reprint 3 packs (summer, winter, refugees) while the other packs will still be widely available.

Jarz said:

This sort of reminds me of the epic battles events. If they made a new mechanic anything close to this (which I think they wouldn't want to be too similar, as this is the Lcg not the board game.) I think it would be cool if each player made another shuffled deck of 7 plot/epicbattle type cards that each player puts next to their plot deck, and when a player wins dominance they choose which player flips a card. Those cards would do something insane. Like turn into agendas that automatically attach to a players house (blanking their current agenda) and either doing something really good or really bad. Or force all players to do a challenge, or all chars power goes onto their house. Or maybe just weird stuff, like a Valar that cannot be cancelled and shuffles all chars into their decks.

A little crazy though. I like the idea of Others and other global effects. Maybe the flipper of the card will be immune to the effect, and the rest of the players have to work to mitigate the damage.
But dominance already gives a little boost, I wouldn't want to also widen the gap by pulling everyone down. (unless the dominance winner is losing.)

Plots are one of my favorite parts of the game, and part of what makes GOT unique. More plot type stuff that you control and influences the pace and flow of the game would be cool.

I'm all for less random chance and more control. The randomness is the spice. Bad hands just make for a un-fun game. (Of course, if you deck build well, you'll get less bad hands.)

I've always wanted something that addressed the passing of time. I mean we have YEARS that have passed since the start of the story. Some of these characters are not the same people that they were at the beginning of the story. So here's what I've come up with

The Passing of Seasons Agenda Neutral

After you reveal a plot card, add one Season Token to all Seasoned cards you control.

After you win a challenge you may add one Season Token to a Seasoned card you control.

I think there is actually a lot of room for some very cool cards here. Not only can you make some cool characters but also locations that get stronger the longer you have them out. I think you might need to do something other than power though. Otherwise it'd be pointless making them renown. Actually I'm going back and changing it to season tokens. They could be included in the deluxe expansion just like the gold was in the Core Set. This way the mechanic wouldn't create any conflicts with other power and it really wouldn't increase the complexity of the card game since everything is self contained on the cards themselves. We wouldn't be add any extra rules. So let's show you some examples.

Sansa Stark Stark Character

2 cost

2 str

Power icon Noble crest

Lady

Seasoned

While Sansa Stark has two or more Seasoned Tokens on her she gains +1 STR, an Intrigue icon and Deadly.

I feel like this is pretty thematic from a game stand point and from a book stand point. I really like this card actually.

Arya Stark Stark Character

2 cost

2 str

Power Icon Noble crest

Lady

Seasoned

While Arya Stark one or more Seasoned Tokens she gains a Military icon and Stealth

While Arya Stark has three or more Seasoned Tokens she loses a Power icon, the Noble crest and the Stark house affiliation, and she gains an Intrigue icon and Deadly.

Pretty similar to Sansa, but reflects Arya's own journey through the books. This mechanic actually suits the Stark children pretty well, but will also work with others.

Robert Baratheon All houses

5 cost

4 str

Military Power Noble crest

King Lord

Seasoned. Renown.

All other characters lose the King trait. If you have more than one opponent Players may not initiate more than 1 challenge each phase.

If Robert has 2 or more Season Tokens on him, kill him (can not be saved).

Dominance: Pay two gold to remove 1 Seasoned Token from Robert Baratheon. (Limit twice per Game)

This card probably needs to be tweaked, but I think the underlying idea is probably sound. I think this is a better implementation of the Doomed mechanic where you had pretty powerful cards that were risky to use. This card is pretty powerful, but he won't be around that long. You can also use this for non unique characters as well.

Squire Nuetral Non Unique

1 cost

1 str

Mil icon

Ally

Seasoned

If Squire has two or more Seasoned Tokens on it, turn it face down. It becomes a 2 str character with a militry and power icons, the knight trait and a war crest.

Again, might need tweaked, but I like the idea behind it. Now let's throw out an idea for a location.

Abandoned Land Neutral non unique

1 cost

Seasoned

While Abandoned Land has one or more Seasoned Tokens on it, it counts as 2 gold during the marshaling phase rather than 1.

While Abandoned Land has two ore more Seasoned Tokens on it, it gains +2 influence and the Limited Keyword.

So all in all I think I'd probably run this card with the agenda.

Now the agenda part is where I'm not so sure. While having the agenda makes things less complicated, since everything is self contained, I'm not sure its the best way to go from a design stand point. It might make more sense to add Seasoned as a new rules mechanic like Shadows was.

Hmmmm the season thing is pretty cool actually. Although you would need to have it work differently if you want it to be a limiting factor. What's to stop me running that Robert without that Agenda? It might be best if it was just a self contained keyword, so that characters with seasoned gain a token when a plot is revealed. You might be able to make an agenda that allows you to add or remove a seasoned token at certain points.

Yeah I think you're probably right. So here's what I'm looking at right now. At the beginning of the plot phase all seasoned cards automatically gain 1 Seasoned Token. The agenda would still let you put a token on a seasoned card after you win a challenge. However, it would also allow you to discard all Seasoned Tokens from a card to save it from being removed from play. Do you guys think that is worth it? Is it too strong? I probably need to rework Robert to fit in with that though. So other than him, do you see any other issues that might arise?

The seasoned idea sounds very similar to some of the existing cards that get gold tokens put on them. I mean, you don't really need to create a new mechanic to have that type of ability. A new mechanic would be a new card type, or something that creates a condition that may affect all players or all cards in play that isn't using normal game play to accomplish.

Game Mechanics introduced after the core set(or did not come with the core set):

Epic Battle Events
Agendas
Seasons - Summer/Winter raven cards
Shadows
Melee and Joust(probably not a mechanic but, it effects multiple cards)

Everything else that I recall is basically an agenda or single card effect.

Now, if this Seasoned Idea revolved around getting cards out to create some universal condition(like Ravens with Summer and Winter) that then affected game play for a lot of cards, then I think I'd call it a mechanic. However, right now can accomplish the same thing by making it a character ability on a number of new cards and using gold tokens to use as counter.

In game design things like Joust, Melee, Seasoned etc, are referred to as mechanics. Intimidate is a mechanic. Kings of the Sea Balon is an ability. An ability is something that would be unique unto one card. A mechanic is something that is universal and is shared through multiple cards. I agree that the Ravens and whatnot are a Mechanic, but so is something like Joust and Melee. I think that is the intent that the OP was using when he said "new game mechanic."

how about an expansions improving on all the underused mechanics and ideas already in the game . . . . , hell i could fill out 55 cards and plots using Epic Battles, Bannerman, Reinforcements, Small Council, Wildlings and Nights Watch.

If we're going to go the way of "Seasoned" cards, why wouldn't we instead just make a third "Season" that involves the transition from Winter to Summer or Summer to Winter? And it can benefit BOTH Seasons OR be a disadvantage to them. It could also help with Raven control without needing another Raven.

I think that building a mechanic that revolves around another mechanic is bad design. Each mechanic should be able to be played independently of each other. I also don't see how my seasoned mechanic could even tie into winter or summer.

Rogue Cypher said:

Well, they are a few Spring/Autumn cards in game although they never made very many. King Robert's Hammer is penalized if its not Spring/Autumn. A couple Lannister cards benefit them but in different ways depending on the actual season. They probably should've made more and had Bara and Lanni the Spring/Autumn Houses.

jack merridew said:

I don't know, having never played L5R, but the Dune CCG pre-dated AGOT by 3(?) years and had a 68 page rule-booklet in the deckboxs. 6 possible challenge icons with separate strengths, a different value for resistance, a command (number of attachments allowed) , and a bidding procedure to bring cards from your imperial deck (secondary, like plot, but similar cardtypes to main deck) where you're opponent could interfere.

Also, there was an optional rule that encouraged spitting on the floor to "honor" your opponent. >

Then again, I like complicated.... so I should probably check out L5R. I'm sure rings 'll teach me.

Whizzwang said:

Star Wars CCG >>> L5R in terms of complicated. I've heard MECCG is worse too.

Star Wars was EASY. MECCG though, yeah that was a *****. Currently played though, I'd still put L5R as the hardest thing to pick up.

Whizzwang said:

Easy? We're thinking of different games. Star Wars CCG currently has a 156-page PDF rulebook and about 30 pages of supplement.

I for one would like to see a new challenge type introduced. I'm not sure what...but it would be cool.

L5R is the most in depth, confusing bag of randomness I have ever had the mispleasure of playing.

I would like to see simple sets with things like: "pay with your power to bring cards into the game","discard X cards from your deck/hand to pay/trigger stuff". and so on. The usual risk vs. reward stuff.

imrahil327 said:

MECCG ? The first one that predates the movies? I played that as 12 year old...