some further questions and bringing back that old debate :)

By Joffy2, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

Posted at

Zearthling said:

Zearthling said:

Well seing as how I just got done sitting in as Overlord yet again, and putting this all to the test (yet again), I put two hero's in webs. One hero had one single web token, and the other had two by the end of the same turn.

Hero 'A' (with one web token) was stuck in the web for 7 (yes seven) complete turns (the only thing that took the web off was Hero death on round seven).

Hero 'B' (with two web tokens) was stuck in the web for 3 complete turns (this hero I was not able to kill untill 5 complete turns after the hero with the one sigle web token was put in its grave).

I'll thank you for the kind words of input, but I'l be sticking with my quantum probabilites and you can stay with your definitive probabilites (if you can even say such a thing with out making it sound like an oxymoron).

It's still the same day so I'll say that again. Now I'm not going to say anything else on this subject here. This is not the thread for 'string theory'. Any one else agree?

OK, so am I correct in saying that it's your argument that less web tokens on a hero are better, because it takes longer to get rid of a single token? If so, that's wrong.

I wrote a Perl program to test this, just so you can see the results. I'm using RtL rules, where the number of dice to roll is equal to the web token count + melee dice count. The results follow. I used 100,000 tests and then took the average. The "turns" indicates the number of turns it takes to remove *all* web tokens from the hero.

1 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 3.00036 turns
1 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 1.24399 turns
1 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 1.09493 turns

3 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 5.04922 turns
3 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 2.01251 turns
3 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 1.56742 turns

5 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 6.13607 turns
5 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 2.67204 turns
5 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 2.09380 turns

As the number of web tokens increased it took more turns to remove them, even though an extra dice was rolled for each web token.

If you want to keep a hero webbed it's better to put more web tokens on them. I can explain it further if you want, but you can look at the results too. If you want the Perl code (you need a Perl interpreter installed) let me know.

Posted at

SkittlesAreYum said:

Zearthling said:

Zearthling said:

Well seing as how I just got done sitting in as Overlord yet again, and putting this all to the test (yet again), I put two hero's in webs. One hero had one single web token, and the other had two by the end of the same turn.

Hero 'A' (with one web token) was stuck in the web for 7 (yes seven) complete turns (the only thing that took the web off was Hero death on round seven).

Hero 'B' (with two web tokens) was stuck in the web for 3 complete turns (this hero I was not able to kill untill 5 complete turns after the hero with the one sigle web token was put in its grave).

I'll thank you for the kind words of input, but I'l be sticking with my quantum probabilites and you can stay with your definitive probabilites (if you can even say such a thing with out making it sound like an oxymoron).

It's still the same day so I'll say that again. Now I'm not going to say anything else on this subject here. This is not the thread for 'string theory'. Any one else agree?

OK, so am I correct in saying that it's your argument that less web tokens on a hero are better, because it takes longer to get rid of a single token? If so, that's wrong.

I wrote a Perl program to test this, just so you can see the results. I'm using RtL rules, where the number of dice to roll is equal to the web token count + melee dice count. The results follow. I used 100,000 tests and then took the average. The "turns" indicates the number of turns it takes to remove *all* web tokens from the hero.

1 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 3.00036 turns
1 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 1.24399 turns
1 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 1.09493 turns

3 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 5.04922 turns
3 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 2.01251 turns
3 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 1.56742 turns

5 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 6.13607 turns
5 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 2.67204 turns
5 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 2.09380 turns

As the number of web tokens increased it took more turns to remove them, even though an extra dice was rolled for each web token.

If you want to keep a hero webbed it's better to put more web tokens on them. I can explain it further if you want, but you can look at the results too. If you want the Perl code (you need a Perl interpreter installed) let me know.

You obviously don't care that this subject has nothing to do with string theory, but I do {even though it's my own fault for getting us all this far off topic}. You can stick your virtual tests, and I'll stick to my physical tests. You can say that two tokens are better then one & you can make all the virtual calculators to roll imaginary dice all you want, but 7 out of 10 of my games in the real world rolling real dice proves this is not the case. So go ahead and waste web tokens on your Hero's, I'll play the miserly OL and pass them out to all the Hero's one at a time and keep winning 70% of my games.

Enough said, so if you would like to argue the virtual vs. the real any further, lets take this to another thread please?

Posted at

Zearthling said:

You obviously don't care that this subject has nothing to do with string theory, but I do {even though it's my own fault for getting us all this far off topic}. You can stick your virtual tests, and I'll stick to my physical tests. You can say that two tokens are better then one & you can make all the virtual calculators to roll imaginary dice all you want, but 7 out of 10 of my games in the real world rolling real dice proves this is not the case. So go ahead and waste web tokens on your Hero's, I'll play the miserly OL and pass them out to all the Hero's one at a time and keep winning 70% of my games.

Enough said, so if you would like to argue the virtual vs. the real any further, lets take this to another thread please?

String theory? Virtual vs real? You are either trolling, or have misplaced faith in your intelligence.

I advise no one else reply.

Posted at

SkittlesAreYum said:

Zearthling said:

You obviously don't care that this subject has nothing to do with string theory, but I do {even though it's my own fault for getting us all this far off topic}. You can stick your virtual tests, and I'll stick to my physical tests. You can say that two tokens are better then one & you can make all the virtual calculators to roll imaginary dice all you want, but 7 out of 10 of my games in the real world rolling real dice proves this is not the case. So go ahead and waste web tokens on your Hero's, I'll play the miserly OL and pass them out to all the Hero's one at a time and keep winning 70% of my games.

Enough said, so if you would like to argue the virtual vs. the real any further, lets take this to another thread please?

String theory? Virtual vs real? You are either trolling, or have misplaced faith in your intelligence.

I advise no one else reply.

As for physical tests, I heard that Russian prisoners tested dice in their spare time and found them to be quite balanced if rolled 1000 times or more (wish I knew where that article was). Regardless of whether that's true or not, humans are really, really bad at understanding how probability works because they have a bias towards believing that their experience (however minor or statistically insignificant) is proof enough.

PS: String theory and Quantum Mechanics would count if we were dealing with atomic scale probability. Macro-scale probability should be calculable with Euclidian math, since that math model was created to be accurate at that scale.

Posted at

Thundercles said:

PS: String theory and Quantum Mechanics would count if we were dealing with atomic scale probability. Macro-scale probability should be calculable with Euclidian math, since that math model was created to be accurate at that scale.

Ah soangel.gif! But we know that the macro scale and micro scale is really just the same thing, they are just ways to express in mathematical proofs the veiw looking 'up' vs. 'down' as things get 'smaller' vs. 'larger'(and vice verse).

Pretty much you can break anything down into sets of numbers either micro or macro in size, dependant on point of veiw. Not true?

What size is the number for π or ∞ ... Micro or Macro?

lol ok lets not go any further here on this 'one' right?

Posted at

Zearthling said:

SkittlesAreYum said:

Zearthling said:

Zearthling said:

Well seing as how I just got done sitting in as Overlord yet again, and putting this all to the test (yet again), I put two hero's in webs. One hero had one single web token, and the other had two by the end of the same turn.

Hero 'A' (with one web token) was stuck in the web for 7 (yes seven) complete turns (the only thing that took the web off was Hero death on round seven).

Hero 'B' (with two web tokens) was stuck in the web for 3 complete turns (this hero I was not able to kill untill 5 complete turns after the hero with the one sigle web token was put in its grave).

I'll thank you for the kind words of input, but I'l be sticking with my quantum probabilites and you can stay with your definitive probabilites (if you can even say such a thing with out making it sound like an oxymoron).

It's still the same day so I'll say that again. Now I'm not going to say anything else on this subject here. This is not the thread for 'string theory'. Any one else agree?

OK, so am I correct in saying that it's your argument that less web tokens on a hero are better, because it takes longer to get rid of a single token? If so, that's wrong.

I wrote a Perl program to test this, just so you can see the results. I'm using RtL rules, where the number of dice to roll is equal to the web token count + melee dice count. The results follow. I used 100,000 tests and then took the average. The "turns" indicates the number of turns it takes to remove *all* web tokens from the hero.

1 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 3.00036 turns
1 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 1.24399 turns
1 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 1.09493 turns

3 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 5.04922 turns
3 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 2.01251 turns
3 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 1.56742 turns

5 Web Token, 0 Melee Dice: 6.13607 turns
5 Web Token, 3 Melee Dice: 2.67204 turns
5 Web Token, 5 Melee Dice: 2.09380 turns

As the number of web tokens increased it took more turns to remove them, even though an extra dice was rolled for each web token.

If you want to keep a hero webbed it's better to put more web tokens on them. I can explain it further if you want, but you can look at the results too. If you want the Perl code (you need a Perl interpreter installed) let me know.

You obviously don't care that this subject has nothing to do with string theory, but I do {even though it's my own fault for getting us all this far off topic}. You can stick your virtual tests, and I'll stick to my physical tests. You can say that two tokens are better then one & you can make all the virtual calculators to roll imaginary dice all you want, but 7 out of 10 of my games in the real world rolling real dice proves this is not the case. So go ahead and waste web tokens on your Hero's, I'll play the miserly OL and pass them out to all the Hero's one at a time and keep winning 70% of my games.

Enough said, so if you would like to argue the virtual vs. the real any further, lets take this to another thread please?

No one said that it isn't more beneficial to spread your tokens out. It is, the benefits strategically are unquestionable. But you seem to have this idea that because one hero has stayed webbed for seven turns a few times with one web token that one web token is somehow better than more for the effect of keeping said hero webbed. Which is assanine at best.

I know you'd like to sweep this under the rug, like your LOS debate, after being proven wrong, but the simple fact of the matter is that you are wrong.

Look at it this way- Lets say you have a hero who has two web tokens on them - after one turn he loses one web token due to a surge. Now he has ONE token, which you seem to think is a magic number, for some reason. He now has equal probability of staying webbed for seven turns as the hero who started with one.

Think about it.

Your logic makes my math intensive degree hurt.

Posted at

That logic should have rung a few history bells instead: it's analogous to Xeno's Paradox, and therefore false. Also, it's "asinine".

Posted at

Thundercles said:

That logic should have rung a few history bells instead: it's analogous to Xeno's Paradox, and therefore false. Also, it's "asinine".

Indeed. I have failed. Somehow FFG's spellchecker is overwriting my Firefox's, and FFG apparently thinks it's asinine or assanine. Which is really odd. I questioned it even as I typed it, but trust in the red squigllies a bit too much for my own good, perhaps.