i have contacted ffg regarding the fact that the first two packs now have yielded 3 useless cards for solo play

renewed friendship- which is a shame as the art is amazing

song of earendil

rohan ally (ok not useless but pretty close, obviously wont find use in a solo deck)

and possibly the new dunedain ranger card- i didnt see any reason for its cost but the fact it has both ranged and sentinel traits??

all useless- these can all go along with wandering took, the sentinel attatchements, Brand, gildors council and several others i cant think of

with only 9 cards in a new pack it is really irritating when i can barely afford the new cards that i get yet more drinks coasters to look at

i appreciate this is 1-2 player game but if you're gonna hold to that why release these useless cards for the 1 player

-i do not want to play with 2 decks

i was really looking forward to the song attatchement till i read it- this is especially annoying as something as 'open ended' as a song atttchement can be pretty much made to do whatever the designers want, and its a missed opportunity in my books

can we please in future either have 1. a couple of pure solo cards (not sure how theyd work- im sure there could be some) or 2. cards that are playable by all players

before you start telling me to chill and be more reasonable, i dont have alot of money (not your problem i know) but i have spent god knows how long saving for a pack and it irritates me that 2/9 of it are useless

i dont mind pure multi-player cards as long as ffg dont forget some people dont want to play 2 player

thanks

PS. i will post their reply here

Amen to that. I'm with you. Also a solo player, and it's a bit annoying. I think there should not be so difficult to have al alternative text in the card, saying that in case of 1 player, the effect is xxxx for example.

agreed robert...................im a really patient man, but this is gettting me worked up....argh need a drink...

Can't deny I'm rather bummed out to see the new cards not being that useful solo. It seems they're starting to get the hang of cards balancing for different player numbers in the encounter decks, so it would be very nice to see that work also for the player decks.

i wonder if they have done some sort of research and found out that very little numbers play solo? thats the vibe i get if im being honest- sorta feel left out

-not that im ever gonna stop giving them my money- **** you ffg for making such a great game

on a side note how long does it generally take ffg to respond?

While I agree with you somewhat, if you need to "save up" to buy a $12 pack of cards you might have bigger problems to worry about than this.

dcdennis said:

yes i do, though i hardly see that as forum appropriate and none of your business

----ive had to come back to this....seriously man?? what the hell goes through your mind when you post something like that? would you like to know my bank balance? my health status? anything else?

you lobbed that softball buddy, can't expect someone not to hit it out of the park.

the reason i said it was that it was core to people understanding why im making a fuss over 2 cards. it was not an invite to troll

I like ya, richsabre, but I have to respectfully disagree with you on this.

With this being the first real cooperative customizable card game, they would really be missing out by not taking full advantage of new concepts that can exist in this system. What you are asking is for every card to only effect the controlling player, basically just be like every card in every other card game ever made, of which there really is only so much they can do, and which we've all seen numerous times. Cards that can synergize with teammates can do all kinds of new, refreshing tricks or even just let us build decks in different ways that even heavy card gamers, like myself, haven't been able to do before.

I don't think there is a lack of solo players like you mentioned, but I would say there has to be at least as many groups, like mine, that play mainly two or more players. I don't think it's too much to put up with for some cards to be better with multiplayer.

That being said, they've shown a willingness to make some of those cards have some purpose to solo players, like the 'ranged' thing. Maybe they could do more of that in the future.

And I also wouldn't be opposed to a few cards that were only for solo play, or worded in a way that it was mainly useful for solo play but also possible to use multiplayer, if even only barely. Like of the top of my head, some really powerful events with wording like "If there is 3 or less Heroes in play, do X". That would be good for solo and would be a big help for the people saying solo is a lot tougher and also enticing for some 2-player games to try the less Heroes builds they keep trying to push on us, and could even be possible if just a bunch of heroes/players died. Something like that. Mainly, we just have to give them some time to figure out what all is possible in this system, both multiplayer and solo.

I mean, I do see where you're coming from, but a request for no more of these fun, unique card concepts is maybe a bit much.

Rich,

I play about 75% solo and always with a single deck so I can relate. I will admit grinding my teeth a little with the Dundeain buffs for sentinel and ranged back in SoM when I was desperately looking for quality purple allies not named Faramir! However, my advice to you is to take a few deep breaths and roll with the punches here. It's a fun game solo, and that's what counts! Also, they've built in relevance for ranged in solo - encounter cards that can only be dealt with through ranged and player cards that key off of it. I'm hoping that we'll get a player card that readies a sentinel after defending or heals them or buffs their D (whatever) that makes the trait relevant in solo. I know that does not help with some of the allies, events and things like Bard's ability, but there's always cards that won't see the light of day for some players.

I think you're British...where's the legendary Stiff upper lip? (jesting, don't be offended!)

The game is designed for co-op, and can be played solo. This is the way of things and how it has been form the start.

There are so many things in this game that point to that above just the individual cards.. scaling balance.. everything.. this is a 2 player game. This is the game your buying... get used to it. I hope they nvr listen to this thread and sacrifice the games ability to be a co-op game for solo players. I think that if anything they should add MORE co-op only cards, as it is only now that co-op decks are starting to get the tools to be truly interdependent, as until recently they were basically just solo decks that people played on either side of the table. This has made co-op measurably more fun. This is a LCG, if you do not like the player card pool, do not buy the pack, the entire point of a LCG is that you can pick and choose the packs you want, no one is forcing you to buy every single pack that is released.

Woz said:

you forget our ability to complain though

to those who say it is a co-operative game is say it is a solo game- there is nowhere on the box that says '2 player with the chance to solo' and if indeed as booored says- many things point to it being primarily a co-op then it is a false advertisement to not state this before you commit, may sound a bit of an over reaction but its what i believe

it says 1-2 players, therefore it should be a 50/50 thing

someone proposed multiple wordings that way everyone wins, i like the idea of that

for those who are worried im out there to try and change the way ffg make their game im not- what...you think theyd do it even if i tried? this isnt the catagories petition

anyways my point is a point in iteself - a customer's opinion

I'm actually gonna have to agree with booored a bit. The game plays 1-4 people, but it's obvious that 2+ players is where the game's focus is at. It seems like they designed a cooperative game and realized it could be played solo, so they slapped it on the box. I expect there will occasionally be some solo-oriented cards, but I wouldn't get my hopes up; while a solo-oriented card would be great for you, it is a dead card for people who play in two, three, and four player games. Secrecy might turn out to be decent for solo decks, but I don't know if I would be comfortable playing a game where there are only 2 heroes on the table.

We already have cards and mechanics that work far better for solo play than for cooperative play, scrying being chief among them. So, solo play is getting attention.

Their needs to be cards that focus on cooperative play for that area of the game to flourish, as boored explained. It would be difficult to design interesting mechanics that worked exclusively for single player, and didn't feel like simply an attempt to make solo players feel better about themselves. The multiplayer cards add exciting elements to the game and a new range of interactions. Its hard to see how a solo-only card would do the same thing.

Bohemond said:

this is a good point as well.

Bohemond said:

This. There will always be cards that are way better in solo games than in coop, and there will always be cards that work better in coop games. I don't see a lot of difference between a card that doesn't work in solo games and a card that's so bad you never want to play it anyway.

So no, I don't mind this one bit, as long as there is something for everybody in a new pack - and I'm certain that will never change.

Also, I'm way more interested in the new scenarios than in the new player cards when buying a pack.

I think rich is saying (and I agree) something like the following: It's completely understable and desirable that FFg design cards that exploits interactions between players and enhance the co-op aspect of the game (i'm mostly a solo player, and I think it's amazing that the game is cooperative). But, I think that it is possible to compatibilize this with some alternative use for the same card in the case of solo playing.

And I offer an example:

The new Rider of the Mark, is an ally with a mechanic designed for co-op, which playing solo makes him barely useful. Ok, what I say is that they could add (add, not replace) to his text something like: Action: If there is only one player in the game, spend 1 Spirit resource to discard a shadow card dealt to an enemy you are engaged with (limit once per round). So, you have a card designed for co-op interaction AND useful for solo play. Usually it could be possible to find both uses for a card, and not be exclusive. Of course the mechanics will make the card better for one or the other, but at least, it could be used by everyone.

Greetings.

Robert McMutton said:

I think adding single-player specific rules to cards would be a very bad idea. If anything we need _less_ text on those cards, not more. _I have trouble reading some of the cards as it is. Putting even more text on the cards will reduce the font to become completely unreadable.

As booored correctly pointed out this is a cooperative game that also can be played solo. So it makes sense to release lots of cards that have a cooperative aspect. I'd actually like to see _more_ of them.

Solo players are still free to use two decks at the same time (which is what I do when I'm playing solo). There's no need to add anything to the game that specifically caters to solo players, particularly since I'm quite sure they're the (somewhat vocal) minority.

jhaelen said:

there.....that right there.

minority

taking that fact i can see 2 things

1.that im never going to get any support in this so im going to let it lie- there is little use in arguing when neither side will back down

2.people are correct in that ffgs loyalties lie in the more numerous of the player types- that being non solo- there fore there is little hope of change

i will just say one final word however (please do not mistake all this for anger or hatred again ffg- it is purely concern that a game that i love very much will lose its shine for solo play- one of the main reasons for it success in my opinion- i mean how many new players come here and state that was what drew them in?)

My problem isnt that ffg are including co-op cards- which yeah is great, something for everyone right? But no, ffg arent doing this. What they are doing is excluding certain players, instead of including others. This is the difference between a nice balanced product which has something for everyone, and just plain forgetting about a big part of your audience (ok big is an exagerration)

i would love to see- just once even- a pure solo card. (and i dont mean a card which is more useful to solo, but till works both ways) and then see what non solo players think of it

i find it disturbing that dwarrowdelf cycle has started this way.....it gives me little hope for the future. there has been a growing doubt in my mind for several months now that ffg are going to almost completely forsake the solo aspect of this game. if ffg keep doing this what eventually will happen is that the solo players they drew in at the start are going to start leaving and stop paying for new packs. players are just going to look on cardgamedb for the spoilers- see that yet again a third of the player cards are useless, and not buy it.

boooored said if you dont like the content dont buy- true- but this is terrible way to do business. ive opened these threads before to no avail, however many more people have agreed with me this time compared to last time, so it shows that yes, solo players are getting a little fed up

i think even those solo players who can 'bite thier lip' will tire of it

besides as a customer i shouldnt have to sit here and bit my lip- i am paying good money and ending up with things that are useless

i will say it again- i dont want to play with 2 decks- yet again something that is never once stated solo players really should be doing

im no longer even bothered about pure solo cards....i would just like ffg to put even just a tiny bit more thought and throw it the solo way

if ffg do indeed see this as a coop game primarily -which is obviously correct- then they need to do something

make it clearer on the core set

they also need to starting thinking more about solo in general- i mean return to mirkwood??? seriously??? that entire pack was anti-solo

Lastly- starhawk said in another of my threads that the song attatchment has the biggest impact out of the pack- well theres another of my points right there- if you're a solo player, that imapct is just a waste- all the exitment is gone becuase you know its just a useless piece of card...here's another point- there's hardly any threat reduction cards in the game right now - and now multiplayer has one that solo doest

..its all about balance- at right now the balance is way off

there......end of....you can all stop grilling me....i will let this one go so it doesnt spoil my enjoyment, and so that i dont end up falling out with people i really like, however i will still post ffg's response, if its worth posting. still now answer however

rich

rich.,.. like.. what are you talking about??.. "ffg are going to almost completely forsake the solo aspect of this game.".... solo plays great, it is a testament to the design that solo is even playable let alone fun.

I mean you are playing solo, and your enjoying it.. I just do not understand what you are complaining about. They are doign exactly what they told us.. they are making a awesome co-op game that can be played solitaire. The fact that to MAKE a co-op game there needs to be machanices designed for co-op doesn't make the solo game any less fun...

Like your enjoying the game still aren't you? I heard you say in a few threads how much you loved the darrowdelf quests, if you are enjoying teh game and playing the quests solo.. then what is the problem ?...

indeed i am enjoying it, and yes thats what its all about, but for me at least, its also about value for money, and im concerned that the balance is off

now if in the other dwarrowdelf packs we dont see anymore (or at least only a few) of the multiplayer exclusive cards then im fine, problem gone, balance restored. but it really looks like it going to keep going the way it is- more and more useless solo cards.

take for instance as i said the song card. solo players are now 1 excellent (and possibly core in threat reduction) card down, especially seeing as there are very little threat reduction. its worse when it really wouldnt have taken all that much to incorporate a different text (no not added- different) to make it usable by both...just a song card that all players can use

this is exactly my point- solo play is awesome, really it is, and i will continue playing it as much as ever- i just was then infact, however i cannot help but get a little irritated when there are several amazing cards coming out that have no use in any solo decks. its concerning especially given that in the past ffg have designed entire packs that have taken the solo element and flushed it down the crapper. i mean take return to mirkwood.....i can honestly say with confidence that there cannot have been anyone on that team that designed it that thought about solo play. every encounter card worked with 2+ players. the threat gain alone made that quest into the most luck based quest for solo so far.

look, i dont want to take away from everyone's amazing coop-utilising new cards, but i do want to see some sort of proof that the desingers are at least once in a while sitting round their tables and saying 'now what can we do for the solo player?'

i mean yeah you could say that all the 'ready x characters' are the solo proof right there, well maybe....but they are very broadly useful cards that are always going to find a place in everyone's decks

my final and main point is that they are a clever bunch, and im sure that they could find a way to make all cards playable by all players, i mean isnt that the designers job? making these exclusive cards cannot be under the excuse of not being able to do it any other way, it has to be by choice....and it is that that concerns me

but...and the end of it all, supply and demand, if youve got more co-op than solo then youre gonna swing that way, always. im really not asking that much here. just 1 little card that whispers hey solo player, look at me, ive been lovingly created just for you.......just like all those multiplayer cards

-im not asking they stop doing something, im asking that they start doing something

First of all, Song of Earendil isn't threat reduction; its threat transfer (just like Wandering Took). Threat transfer is a mechanic that can not be implemented for solo play, but adds a wonderful dynamic to the game. Threat reduction is another mechanic that is far more useful in solo play than multiplayer, because their is a huge advantage to having all players under the engagement level of monsters.

What your asking for is the inclusion of cards that co-op players can't use to make yourself feel better. That's foolish, especially when you have cards that are geared for solo play.

As an example, take Denethor. Denethor is built for solo play; even if that isn't explictly stated. If you designed Denethor to have equal impact in solo play or co-op, his power would look like this.

"Action: Exhaust Denethor to look at the top X cards of the encounter deck, where X is the number of players. You may move one card to the bottom of the deck. Shuffle the remaining cards and place them on top of the deck."

But he doesn't do that, nor should he. The scrying mechanic would be too powerful if you ported it over to co-op play, just as certain co-op mechanics do not transfer well to the solo game. You have solo cards, and FFG shouldn't have to narrow the design scope of the game to improve player psychology.

richsabre said:

Ok I don't have my pack yet but according to the first post 2 of the 9 player cards are for co-op. This seems to forget the 10th player card which is the hero. So 2 out of 10 player cards are not usable in solo? Does this not mean that 80% of the player cards are usable solo???

What more do you want. 100% solo usable cards!!! There has to be something for co-op in this game.

Being a 75% solo to 25% co-op player (who really likes co-op and wished he could get more people to play more often) the mix works for me.

To Rich... are you not a fan of the co-op version or just don't have anyone locally interested. I've really come to enjoy co-op because your deck can be more focused on one or two jobs and well designed co-op decks can set up awesome combo's between each other. If you ever want to play co-op online drop me a line. I'd love to show you how fun it can be.

Wraith428